Author Topic: MPC#008 - Solved - 1947 Piacenza starting grid  (Read 4747 times)

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Re: MPC#008
« Reply #75 on: October 30, 2012, 10:18:11 AM »
Drivers added in the list in the first page!
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Re: MPC#008
« Reply #76 on: November 06, 2012, 08:29:18 AM »
Time for the Black Hole... and only two cars left... let's go!!!
This is a picture of Barbieri and his Maerati... I think this could be the Piacenza race, cause the #134 fit the numbers of the other cars... but I'm not really sure about it...
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Re: MPC#008
« Reply #77 on: November 06, 2012, 04:46:33 PM »
I have found the following grid positions listed on a website hich I have found to generally be reliable:

1.     Franco Cortese    Ferrari 125 Spyder   No 128
2.    Renato Balestrero   Stanguellini 2800 No 126
3.    Giovanna Maria Cornaggia Medici   Alfa Romeo    
4.     Nino Rovelli    BMW 328
5.    Enrico Adanti     Lancia Aprilia    
6.     Dei    Alfa Romeo    
7.     * Bruno    Maserati
8.     Mario Angiolini      Maserati 6CS/46       
9.    Aldo Bianchi      Lancia Aprilia
10.    Azzi                    Lancia Aprilia    
11.    Aldo Ranzini     Lancia Aprilia or Maserati
12     Beltracchini    Auto Avio Construzioni tipo 815 
13.   *  Danzi           Lancia Aprilia
14.    Guido Barbieri    Maserati 6CS/46
15.   *  Cattina    Alfa Romeo    
?    Bracco              

Did not start (practice accident)
No 166    Giuseppe Farina      Ferrari 125 Spyder Corsa

*  Drivers listed as non-starters

Does this help identify the last few?
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Re: MPC#008
« Reply #78 on: November 07, 2012, 08:49:04 AM »
I have found the following grid positions listed on a website hich I have found to generally be reliable:

1.     Franco Cortese    Ferrari 125 Spyder   No 128
2.    Renato Balestrero   Stanguellini 2800 No 126
3.    Giovanna Maria Cornaggia Medici   Alfa Romeo    
4.     Nino Rovelli    BMW 328
5.    Enrico Adanti     Lancia Aprilia    
6.     Dei    Alfa Romeo    
7.     * Bruno    Maserati
8.     Mario Angiolini      Maserati 6CS/46       
9.    Aldo Bianchi      Lancia Aprilia
10.    Azzi                    Lancia Aprilia    
11.    Aldo Ranzini     Lancia Aprilia or Maserati
12     Beltracchini    Auto Avio Construzioni tipo 815 
13.   *  Danzi           Lancia Aprilia
14.    Guido Barbieri    Maserati 6CS/46
15.   *  Cattina    Alfa Romeo    
?    Bracco              

Did not start (practice accident)
No 166    Giuseppe Farina      Ferrari 125 Spyder Corsa

*  Drivers listed as non-starters

Does this help identify the last few?
That list is indeed good, but you can see that the starting positions are far from the period pictures...
As stated before by sixtee5cuda the cars left are Bruno's Maserati, and two Aprilia.
But in the picture we have only two of them!!
My research indicates the unsolved cars are either 2 Lancias, or a Lancia and a Maserati.  #9 being a coupe should make it easy to find, but it hasn't turned out that way.
The driver of #8, the Aprilia Touring is unknown to me, so the drivers left are four: Bruno (Maserati), Bianchi, Adanti and Danzi.
I have found two cars that match the cars in the picture... I'm not at all sure about them, but if you find them we can discuss about it and I can give you the two points...
If you can prove in some way the identification of the cars #9 and #12 that's really good!!
I hope to find a solution soon...
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Re: MPC#008
« Reply #79 on: November 09, 2012, 04:35:12 PM »
I don't know any more than I found on that website.  I simply hoped the information might help someone close this out.

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Re: MPC#008
« Reply #80 on: September 21, 2013, 01:17:06 PM »
I think it's time to move this puzzle to the solved section...
For two very easy points find me two cars which can fit the puzzle cars #9 and #12... I think they are both Lancia Aprilia, one with a closed bodywork and the other with a more common open body... I have two cars which can be the right two... if you find them the points are yours...

PS - I'm not sure at all tha the cars I have are really the correct cars... but I don't think it is possible to find the correct cars with the pictures we have...
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Re: MPC#008
« Reply #81 on: September 23, 2013, 07:25:06 AM »
I will need to make notes from the posts so far, because of the huge amount of information which has been offered, but a quick glance at the puzzle makes me think #9 could be this, the 1937 Lancia Aprilia by Pininfarina which came 26th in the 1938 Mille Miglia driven by Aldo Marazza. As I said, I have no proof, just a "feeling".
I must be right - that's what it says on Wikipedia

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Re: MPC#008
« Reply #82 on: September 23, 2013, 07:29:42 AM »
And could #12 be this, a Lancia Aprilia 1350 Sport.?
I must be right - that's what it says on Wikipedia

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Re: MPC#008
« Reply #83 on: September 23, 2013, 10:12:37 AM »
I have been checking a few references, and can find no absolute confirmation about the puzzle cars. The photo shows 15 cars, and other pictures of the start do not show any more than that number. The "certain site" which has been referred to claims that there were only 13 starters - perhaps they were going by official records, and that the organisers allowed 2 cars to actually start which had been damaged in practice, but fixed in time for the start. These would be Cattina's Alfa, and almost certainly one of the Lancia Aprilia entries - there's nothing in the puzzle photo which looks like an additional Maserati. I reckon they would have been placed by the organisers at the back of the grid - the powerful Alfa has already made up ground, but the puzzle Lancia #12, is still there. Could this be the car of Danzi?

Although the "certain site" is not always accurate, we have to believe that some of the records are correct. They claim that 2 Aprilia cars started 5th (Adanti) and 9th (Bianchi) on the grid. I don't believe for one moment that a tuned production engine would achieve a starting-grid place of 5th against Ferrari, Maserati, Alfa etc opposition, but the 9th place would fit in with the Touring-bodied car in #8 so this could be Aldo Bianchi. That means that the "Jaray-style" berlinetta #9 is being driven by Enrico Adanti.

Those special-bodied Aprilias were not really very fast. Aldo Bianchi won his class in the 1947 Mille Miglia, but he finished almost 2 hours behind the winner of the 1100cc class (which was some guy called Nuvolari whoever he was). I'm only guessing again. but the 2 races were in the same year, so it's probably the same car - if anyone has photos of the '47 MM they may be able to solve this.

I'm still trying to find absolute proof......
I must be right - that's what it says on Wikipedia

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Re: MPC#008
« Reply #84 on: September 23, 2013, 02:36:06 PM »
I reckon they would have been placed by the organisers at the back of the grid - the powerful Alfa has already made up ground, but the puzzle Lancia #12, is still there.
I don't think that the #11 Alfa started behind cars #12 and #10... the picture was shooted early after the start and the positions of the cars should be the same of the starting grid: you can see that in reply #38, where the #11 is between Touring Aprilia (#8) and Sail Alfa (#15)



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Re: MPC#008
« Reply #85 on: September 23, 2013, 03:10:05 PM »
The grid should be:

                 BMW          Maserati          Ferrari
              (Rovelli)       (Angiolini)       (Cortese)

Stanguellini        Aprilia            Alfa               Maserati
(Balestrero)        (Azzi)            (Dei)             (Barbieri)

               Aprilia            Alfa             Alfa-Sail
                 (?)           (Cattina)      (Cornaggia)

    #9               Maserati         Aprilia          Auto Avio
    (?)                (Bracco)       (Ranzini)     (Beltracchini)

                                     #12
                                      (?)

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Re: MPC#008
« Reply #86 on: September 23, 2013, 03:10:54 PM »
I will need to make notes from the posts so far, because of the huge amount of information which has been offered, but a quick glance at the puzzle makes me think #9 could be this, the 1937 Lancia Aprilia by Pininfarina which came 26th in the 1938 Mille Miglia driven by Aldo Marazza. As I said, I have no proof, just a "feeling".
I think the same about car #9... this is the car that IMO fitted in the best way the puzzle car...
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Re: MPC#008
« Reply #87 on: September 23, 2013, 03:15:50 PM »
Although the "certain site" is not always accurate, we have to believe that some of the records are correct.
Maybe the problem could be in the source of the recors... old magazines are not always 100% accurate...

They claim that 2 Aprilia cars started 5th (Adanti) and 9th (Bianchi) on the grid. I don't believe for one moment that a tuned production engine would achieve a starting-grid place of 5th against Ferrari, Maserati, Alfa etc opposition, but the 9th place would fit in with the Touring-bodied car in #8 so this could be Aldo Bianchi. That means that the "Jaray-style" berlinetta #9 is being driven by Enrico Adanti.
This could be a good guess... :-\
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Re: MPC#008
« Reply #88 on: September 23, 2013, 03:19:27 PM »
Wikipedia sais Bianchi won his class at 1947 MM with an Aprilia Touring spider... #8 ??
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Re: MPC#008
« Reply #89 on: September 23, 2013, 03:23:16 PM »
The Bianchi Mille Miglia car...  ;)
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Re: MPC#008
« Reply #90 on: September 23, 2013, 06:48:05 PM »
The Bianchi Mille Miglia car...  ;)

They look VERY similar.

I agree with you about the starting positions. I was wrong. I believe that the two mystery starters (the Cattina Alfa and one of the Lancia Aprilias) maybe broke during practice but were repaired in time for the race, and the organisers allowed them to start in the positions they held on practice times. You make a good point about the records on that "certain site" - maybe they were taken from magazines or newspapers of the time, and those magazine reports were not aware that 2 extra cars had been allowed to start.

If only we could find a good quality picture of the back of the grid! That unidentified Lancia may be forever in the Black Hole- the photo I selected from library images is only a vague similarity.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2013, 05:59:03 AM by nicanary »
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Re: MPC#008
« Reply #91 on: September 24, 2013, 07:29:08 AM »
If only we could find a good quality picture of the back of the grid! That unidentified Lancia may be forever in the Black Hole- the photo I selected from library images is only a vague similarity.
I have a car which could be the one we are looking for... it's indeed similar... it's an Aprilia and fitted the puzzle car... what is it?? The point can be yours...  ;)
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Re: MPC#008
« Reply #92 on: September 24, 2013, 12:00:27 PM »
I've found this one, which was supposedly built in 1938. The shape of the wings on the puzzle car remind me of a Jaguar XK120, and this is the most similar. There is no real information on the sites where it is pictured.
I must be right - that's what it says on Wikipedia

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Re: MPC#008
« Reply #93 on: September 24, 2013, 02:19:22 PM »
I've found this one, which was supposedly built in 1938. The shape of the wings on the puzzle car remind me of a Jaguar XK120, and this is the most similar. There is no real information on the sites where it is pictured.
Yes! I think this is the mistery car #12... it's a Zagato Lancia Aprilia, driven by Villoresi at 1938 Mille Miglia...
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Re: MPC#008
« Reply #94 on: September 24, 2013, 02:22:21 PM »
I think I can finally close this puzzle!  :)
This puzzle is now closed... but I'll give a point to everyone who can prove (with better picture or with reliable sources) the identification of car #9 and #12...
...thanks to all the contributor!
:applause: :applause: :applause:
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Re: MPC#008 - Solved - 1947 Piacenza starting grid
« Reply #95 on: September 24, 2013, 03:51:20 PM »
Just out of interest, I found more images of what we believe is car #9 - the 1937 Lancia Aprilia Aerodinamica coupe by Pininfarina. One shows the very stylish rear view, and the other shows the car in what must be early form, with a smaller grille and spats over the wheels. The interesting thing is that I have also seen a photo of the car in this "spatted" form taking part in what looks like the Mille Miglia, and carrying race number 72. This is the number it had in the 1938 Mille Miglia when it finished 26th, but in that race photos show it without spats and with the more traditional Lancia grille.
I must be right - that's what it says on Wikipedia

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Re: MPC#008 - Solved - 1947 Piacenza starting grid
« Reply #96 on: September 24, 2013, 03:55:56 PM »
The rear view...
I must be right - that's what it says on Wikipedia

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Re: MPC#008 - Solved - 1947 Piacenza starting grid
« Reply #97 on: September 25, 2013, 08:58:15 AM »
Just out of interest, I found more images of what we believe is car #9 - the 1937 Lancia Aprilia Aerodinamica coupe by Pininfarina. One shows the very stylish rear view, and the other shows the car in what must be early form, with a smaller grille and spats over the wheels. The interesting thing is that I have also seen a photo of the car in this "spatted" form taking part in what looks like the Mille Miglia, and carrying race number 72. This is the number it had in the 1938 Mille Miglia when it finished 26th, but in that race photos show it without spats and with the more traditional Lancia grille.
There were two similar Pinin Farina Aprilia Aerodinamica (or at least two versions of the same car)... the "spatted" car is an early version, with a different grille, but also the second version had in some moment the spats, at least on the rear wheels...
You can easly distinguish the two versions from the side: the former had the "side marker"...; and from behind: the latter had air vents on the tail...
Here two rear picture of the cars.
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Re: MPC#008 - Solved - 1947 Piacenza starting grid
« Reply #98 on: September 28, 2013, 09:25:51 AM »
A third version of the Aprilia Pinin Farina aerodinamica.
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Re: MPC#008 - Solved - 1947 Piacenza starting grid
« Reply #99 on: September 28, 2013, 09:27:50 AM »
[attachimg=1]
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