Author Topic: Solved - NEH 2122: Emeryson-Jaguar - 1947  (Read 772 times)

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Offline Carnut

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Solved - NEH 2122: Emeryson-Jaguar - 1947
« on: October 04, 2012, 05:53:50 AM »
What's this, built by whom, when - for 1 point?

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« Last Edit: August 06, 2020, 09:39:10 PM by pnegyesi »
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Offline thehotstepper

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Re: NEH 2122
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2012, 07:28:35 PM »
1947 Emeryson-Jaguar built by Paul Emery.

Offline Carnut

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Re: NEH 2122
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2012, 04:32:16 AM »
1947 Emeryson-Jaguar built by Paul Emery.

Quite so.
Originally fitted with a pre-war Duesenberg engine and also raced with a Riley engine, it currently has a period 2.8 litre Jaguar straight six.
Apparently there are 2 cars in existence claiming to be the same one (the other one is in Switzerland..)!
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Offline D-type

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Re: Solved - NEH 2122: Emeryson-Jaguar - 1947
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2012, 03:19:21 PM »
"Period" 2.8 litre Jaguar engine?  What period? 
(As far as I know, the 2.8 litre XK engine was introduced in 1968 as an option to power the XJ6)
Duncan Rollo

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Offline Allan L

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Re: Solved - NEH 2122: Emeryson-Jaguar - 1947
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2012, 05:55:27 PM »
The auctioneer whose photo was used seems to have described the car rather poorly: he refers to Winterbottom in the first special winning at Gransden Lodge in 1947 and this car "strongly believed" to be the one fielded in 1948 with the Duesenberg engine as if it wasn't the same car.  The Duesenberg engine replaced a highly supercharged 1100 cc Rapier engine in the same car. (ref. John Bolster: Specials)
The auctioneer would therefore have us believe it's the same car as woodinsight's MJW 430 which looked like this:


As Carnut says it seems two cars are being claimed to be the same one.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 05:58:01 PM by Allan L »
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Offline Carnut

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Re: Solved - NEH 2122: Emeryson-Jaguar - 1947
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2012, 04:17:52 AM »
"Period" 2.8 litre Jaguar engine?  What period? 
(As far as I know, the 2.8 litre XK engine was introduced in 1968 as an option to power the XJ6)

Yes, it's quite possibly a much later engine.
This car seems to have been much buggered about-with!
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Offline Carnut

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Re: Solved - NEH 2122: Emeryson-Jaguar - 1947
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2012, 10:40:32 AM »
Information from the H&H Classic Cars auction when this car did not sell:

QUOTE
1947 Emeryson Single Seat Racecar


Features 2.8 Jaguar Engine.

Estimate was £20,000 to £22,000

Bid to £15,000 - "Not sold"

The striking red, front-engined, single-seater racing car offered is an intriguing proposition. It lays claim to being the Emeryson Lagonda Special built in 1947 by Paul Emery and his father. Initially powered by a two-stage supercharged 1100cc Lagonda Rapier engine, that car is credited with taking Eric Winterbottom to a minor win at Gransden Lodge and third place in the 1947 Manx Cup before being sold to Ulsterman Bobby Baird. History suggests that, with Paul's Emeryson's help, Baird replaced the Lagonda unit with the ex-Whitney Straight 4.5-litre Duesenberg unit, coupled to an ENV type 110 pre-selector gearbox. Though then entered for the 1948 Grand Prix at Silverstone, it apparently never ran, as problems feeding the new-found power through the transmission could not be resolved in time. The car was apparently then sold within Ireland, where it spent some time competing in hillclimbs and regional races. Various references suggest a number of other engines were later run in the same chassis, including Alta, Aston Martin and Jaguar units. They also at one point link the car to the inimitable motoring writer Denis Jenkinson. Unfortunately, there is no documentation to prove that the sale car and the one described above are definitely one in the same.

The sale car currently features a 2.8-litre Jaguar engine. While some parts of the suspension are akin to that on the original Emeryson Special others, it seems, are not. However, that could easily be explained by the continual development of such a car - especially one that changed hands many times and was used for both circuit racing and hillclimbs. As we said at the outset, an intriguing proposition indeed!

PLEASE NOTE: Since the catalogue went to press we have been informed that there are two cars which lay claim to having been derived from the Emeryson Lagonda Special. The other car is currently resident in Austria and is understood to have passed through the hands of Bobby Baird, Henry Kyle, Barrie Carter, Denis Jenkinson and Duncan Rabagliati before being acquired by the present owner during 1998.

There is little doubt that the Emeryson chassis would have required substantial modification to accommodate a straight-eight Duesenberg 4.5 litre engine in place of its original in-line four-cylinder 1.1 litre Rapier unit. It has been hypothesised that the lot on offer was assembled using parts which were discarded either during the single-seater's conversion from Rapier to Duesenberg power or at some later date.

The vendor tells us Wilbur McKee, a former employee of Paul Emery, confirmed to him that the lot on offer bore a resemblance to the Emeryson single-seater as he remembered it. However, the vendor asks that prospective purchasers make their own investigations into and draw their own conclusions about his car's provenance.
UNQUOTE
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Offline mekubb

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Ubb112
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2013, 06:06:41 PM »
What's this compact racer ?

Offline mekubb

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Re: Ubb112
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2013, 03:26:08 PM »
Up

Offline mekubb

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Re: Ubb112
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2013, 05:33:52 PM »
Up again

Offline nicanary

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Re: Ubb112
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2013, 06:37:52 PM »
1947 Emeryson-Jaguar.

It was built by the Emery family in 1947 based on a Lagonda Rapier, and later re-engined with a 4.5-litre Duesenberg motor. It fell into the hands of Duncan Rabagliati who gifted the car to famous journalist Denis Jenkinson, who kept the car under a waterproof tarpaulin in his garden. And there it rotted until DSJ's death in 1996. The engine was reunited with the Duesy chassis and is now a prime exhibit at the Brooklands Society Museum - what was left of the chassis was restored and it was sold at auction fitted with a 6-cylinder 2.8-litre Jaguar engine.

Now I reckon this is from a 1970s XJ6 Saloon. General opinion in the historic race car community reckons there wasn't much left of the Emeryson after years of neglect, and about the only original components on this car are parts of the suspension. So - it claims to be a 1947 car, but really isn't. It's like the woodman's axe - 40 years old and still the same axe after 3 new blades and 2 new handles.
I must be right - that's what it says on Wikipedia

Offline Carnut

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Re: Ubb112
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2013, 06:42:03 PM »
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Offline Allan L

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Re: Ubb112
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2013, 06:58:21 PM »
Opinionated but sometimes wrong

Offline mekubb

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Re: Ubb112
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2013, 04:00:54 AM »
Indeed an Emeryson-Jaguar and the photo is the same as Carnut's puzzle, so clearly a re-post. Before posting it I searched for Emeryson but this particular car didn't pop up and still doesn't. So may be someone can tell me what to do now ? Should I award the point to Nicanary nevertheless ?


Offline Allan L

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Re: Ubb112
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2013, 04:27:17 AM »
Indeed an Emeryson-Jaguar and the photo is the same as Carnut's puzzle, so clearly a re-post. Before posting it I searched for Emeryson but this particular car didn't pop up and still doesn't. So may be someone can tell me what to do now ? Should I award the point to Nicanary nevertheless ?
Yes for some reason the search is a bit dodgy these days. Must be a feature of the recent software changes.
I got nothing on NEH 2122 searching for Emeryson but it was there if I searched for Emeryson-Jaguar. How illogical, going on stupid is that?

Since Nicarary joined 7½ weeks after it was solved last time, I don't see why he shouldn't have the point!
« Last Edit: October 24, 2013, 04:30:29 AM by Allan L »
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Offline Carnut

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Re: Ubb112
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2013, 04:29:10 AM »
Indeed an Emeryson-Jaguar and the photo is the same as Carnut's puzzle, so clearly a re-post. Before posting it I searched for Emeryson but this particular car didn't pop up and still doesn't. So may be someone can tell me what to do now ? Should I award the point to Nicanary nevertheless ?

Actually 'Emeryson' didn't pop up for me either, but I knew I'd posted it so I kept on searching..
'Emeryson Jaguar' didn't pop up either, but 'Emeryson-Jaguar' did!  The Search treats it as all one word when there's a hyphen, so including the hyphen is crucial!

Give Nicanary his point since he did the work and call it solved, then I'll merge it for you.
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Offline nicanary

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Re: Ubb112
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2013, 05:15:57 AM »
I can tell you something - as some of you will know, there is a certain website forum which is graced by regular observations from some of the most knowledgeable historic racing car buffs in the world. I'm talking journalists, authors, ex-drivers, people who are hired by auction houses to verify the authenticity of cars for sale. What they don't know could be written on a gnat's whatsit.

When I first saw the puzzle I must admit I knew what the car was, but checked on Google Images, and noted the "description" which accompanied the auction house details. After looking at my own reference books, I then referred to that forum, and there was a lengthy thread which had begun when the auction was first announced. 138 posts later, I was exhausted and confused by what I read. Even these experts were baffled by this car.

The muddle is not helped by the fact that there was another, completely separate, Emeryson single-seater fitted with a Jaguar engine. This was a previous puzzle (Otto Puzzell #475) and was the car built in 1953 by the Emery family to contest F2 races, first fitted with a linered-down Aston Martin sports car motor, then an Alta which was bored-out in 1954 to make it eligible for F1.  The car finished its competition life with a 2.4-litre Jaguar XK engine (on which at one time experimental fuel-injection was tried from an old diesel truck motor), and this was sprinted and hillclimbed in 1957 by Roberta Cowell. What happened to it after that I do not know. There is an enthusiast collector in Austria (not Switzerland, I think) who has a number of Emery-built cars, and I believe this later car is the one in that collection. Having said that, the auction house have presumably employed an expert to prove provenance of this earlier car, and if they say it's where it is, who am I to argue?

Some historic racing fans say they're looking forward to this car being back on the track. but I can't see how it can compete with the engine presently fitted.

(PS - I didn't explain myself very well - I was trying to point out that BOTH cars finished up fitted with Jaguar engines, hence the confusion amongst collectors about which car is which).
« Last Edit: October 24, 2013, 05:19:43 AM by nicanary »
I must be right - that's what it says on Wikipedia

Offline Carnut

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Re: Ubb112
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2013, 05:32:05 AM »
Roberta Cowell eh..  I haven't seen that name in a long time.
It's fascinating to read up about her.  She had a fantastic early career when a man, Robert Cowell, being an RAF pilot, serving in WW2 and being taken a prisoner of war.  He was also heavily involved in motor racing.  Robert changed sex in the early fifties, becoming Roberta Cowell, continuing to be successfully involved in motor racing.  It's worth reading up on!
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Offline nicanary

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Re: Ubb112
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2013, 05:53:22 AM »
Quite so. Roberta died in 2011, at the grand age of 93, so all that surgery did not affect her constitution. A very remarkable woman, and very courageous indeed in her own way, when you consider how society would have regarded such a thing back then.

Since we're all friends on this site, I would like to point out that when a new puzzle reaches the Pros, I don't automatically check to see if I can get the answer because it's a repost. There's no fun in that. Just thought I'd clear the air on that one. I'd been desperately waiting for Mekubb to move it to Pros, not realising that everyone already knew the answer. There's one of Carnut's also - you grovel for what you can get up here in the stratosphere.
I must be right - that's what it says on Wikipedia

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Re: Solved - NEH 2122: Emeryson-Jaguar - 1947
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2013, 07:19:31 AM »
Point added for Nicanary