Author Topic: What Where When #524 - Oldsmobile F-88 concept vehicle at the 1956 Sebring 12 Hour race  (Read 1598 times)

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Offline Ray B.

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Ever seen this ?

If you did, please respond below and let us know the make and model of the car posted here, along with the place and time where this picture was taken.

Only a full answer will get a point.

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Also, please be sure to check out our other puzzles, and, please post a puzzle of your own if you'd like - the more, the merrier.

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« Last Edit: March 07, 2016, 03:44:46 AM by Otto Puzzell »
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Offline araknid

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Re: What Where When #524
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2011, 07:29:02 PM »
Well, I would guess that it's some kind of Oldsmobile
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Offline araknid

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Re: What Where When #524
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2011, 07:31:19 PM »
Oldsmobile’s wonderful F-88 concept vehicle at the 1956 Sebring 12 Hour race
« Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 07:47:08 PM by araknid »
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Offline Ray B.

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Re: What Where When #524
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2011, 05:02:12 PM »
You're perfectly right on all counts, so the point is yours.

However the F-88 is supposed to look like this one (see below) and you can notice several differences.
Another point for the whole story: why?
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Offline araknid

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Re: What Where When #524
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2011, 05:24:47 PM »
You're perfectly right on all counts, so the point is yours.

However the F-88 is supposed to look like this one (see below) and you can notice several differences.
Another point for the whole story: why?

Realy good question.  The original one (shown below) sold at Barrett-Jackson  classic car auction for $3,240,000 (including 8 percent buyer's premium)!!!!!!! Highest car ever sold by Barrett-Jackson.  Some 50 years after the F88 "Dream Car" was conceived.
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Offline araknid

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Re: What Where When #524
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2011, 05:44:51 PM »
Some information I was able to gather says. 

"Home movies taken in the summer of 1954 by a 15-year-old Lansing youth named Don Baron show the Oldsmobile F-88 being driven by Shriners in a downtown parade. After the golden 1954 Oldsmobile F-88 was sent to Lansing, continues Henderson, Harley Earl apparently had second thoughts about having let it go, so he ordered another one built. The twin was painted red. "That red car became Mr. Earl's other daily driver," notes Henderson."

So a second one was built, but painted red.  I couldn't find any picture of the second car.  Another source says that there were four cars built.

However, I found this one which some indicate is the 1954 F-88 and other sources indicvate it is the 1957 F-88 mk II

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Offline araknid

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Re: What Where When #524
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2011, 05:51:01 PM »
And this one indicated as 1959 F-88 Mk III
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Offline araknid

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Re: What Where When #524
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2011, 05:54:44 PM »
And another picture of the car you posted which the source lists as as F-88 MkII

So who knows.  There does appear that there were at least four cars; the gold one, the one you posted, the blue quad headlight version and the red one with the pointy nose.

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Offline Ray B.

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Re: What Where When #524
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2011, 04:52:00 AM »
This is Harley Earl at the wheel if I'm right. And it appears to be the puzzle car. It looks more green than blue, but so does the sky, and it's probably due to the usual color fading of old films or prints.

Forget about the quad headlights versions. Although the puzzle car is sometimes captioned as the Mark II (that would have yo be verified), those are indeed the true Mark II and Mark III (1957 and 1959, very probably). The Mark III was one of my first puzzles. http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=3268.0

Let's concentrate on the 1954 cars. Now what do you think of this one? A true period factory picture, apparently.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2011, 05:01:10 AM by Ray B. »
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Offline Otto Puzzell

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Re: What Where When #524
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2011, 05:35:46 AM »
I'm convinced there were (at least) two F88's built in 1954, with a number of detail differences.

There's a version with a removable hardtop, coves behind the wheels, and extra lamps between the verticle bumper bars on the rear (the puzzle car, I believe - the wheels also match), and the Motorama car, with it's more mundane wheel openings, and no lamps between the rear bumper bars. Also, One had a twin carb V8, and the other was supercharged.

I think the reconstructed car that sold at Barret Jackson was a combination of parts from both, and with a non-original engine, regardless of which engine was in the mythical crates.

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Offline Ray B.

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Re: What Where When #524
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2011, 11:06:25 AM »
Alright. Now the intriguing one is the one I posted in my reply#8:
No à la Olds '56 divider in the grille, the 88 emblem in the grille replaced by an "Oldsmobile" lettering, à la Olds '57...
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Offline Otto Puzzell

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Re: What Where When #524
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2011, 04:08:57 AM »
Another shot of the puzzle car. This photo is from a 1956 issue of Motor Life magazine, taken at Elkhart Lake
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Offline Ray B.

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Re: What Where When #524
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2011, 09:41:43 AM »
Araknid gets the point, which will be added to his count when this is declared solved.
Otto gave us the most complete insight of this car's story for the time.
I move this to the pro section:
This is locked for Otto 72 hours, if he can prove his conviction with any evidence (about the 3 different designs particularly) for a second point .
« Last Edit: April 09, 2011, 09:44:56 AM by Ray B. »
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Offline Otto Puzzell

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Re: What Where When #524
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2011, 05:46:13 AM »
Beyond what I've offered above about the two distinct designs,which I pulled from various sources, I have no conclusive proof.

Even persons directly connected with building the car or cars only say that Earl built a second car, and ordered one of them shipped E.L. Cord in California. Through a convoluted and under-documented series of events, it's believed the crates of disassembled parts shipped to Cord were assembled into the the car that was restored and sold at Barret-Jackson.  Within the crates was the alternate front bumper and split grill seen on Earl's car in the picture above. Michael Guide wrote an investigative piece for Collectible Automobile that assembles many of the (incomplete) story fragments.

That's all I got.  
« Last Edit: April 10, 2011, 05:49:23 AM by Otto Puzzell »
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Offline Otto Puzzell

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Re: What Where When #524
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2011, 05:53:16 AM »
This is a shot of the open-cove car, with the split grill, taken in what seems to be the same garage as the rear 3/4 view I posted before, as well as a picture of the 'restored' car, with an alternate split grill from the crates.
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Offline Ray B.

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Re: What Where When #524
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2011, 06:05:40 AM »
All you got is definitely worth a point, don't you think?
Now we have grilles a-plenty: two non split (with and without holes for road lights), two split grilles (same differences) and a collection of wire mesh or horizontal bars fillings plus a link to an article who explains it (almost) all.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2011, 06:53:21 PM by Ray B. »
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Offline Ray B.

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Re: What Where When #524
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2011, 06:07:31 AM »
An this makes Araknid an expert.
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Offline Carnut

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Well done Araknid.
Welcome to the Know-Alls!
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline Otto Puzzell

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Re: What Where When #524
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2011, 06:15:11 AM »
An this makes Araknid an expert.

 :drink: :cheer: Araknid :cheer: :drink:
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Offline araknid

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Well done Araknid.
Welcome to the Know-Alls!


den-kyew-beddy-mudge.  I think.   :lmao:
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Offline araknid

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Re: What Where When #524
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2011, 04:58:40 PM »
All you got is definitely worth a point, don't you think?
Now we have grilles a-plenty: two non split (with and without holes for road lights), two split grilles (same differences) and a collection of wire mesh or horizontal bars fillings plus a link to an article who explains it (almost) all.

Agreed.  So now, maybe we can all put this silly F-88 thing behind us.   :P
« Last Edit: April 11, 2011, 06:53:51 PM by Ray B. »
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Offline motorcar1

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The story and infamous history of the F-88 is far from being fully told.

John Hendricks, Discovery Channel, purchased this car at the Barrett.
Their is a 20 year, or so, lost history of this particular concept car.

Harley took concept cars to 5 different race tracks.
Many do not know that Harley's son raced in Early SCCA.

I think>> lord help us>> that Harley was with Senator Barry Goldwater and Ben Harris, were in Wacky Arnolts private tower at Sebring for this race.
Harley also took concept cars to the Inaugural race at Road America, if one reflects back to the link in Ben's Story, you will see that Ben was on the National board of the SCCA and was nominated as the official flagman of the race.

Two other races, Harley's son raced at them and Harley brought the concept cars along,these were other tracks Ben officiated at and helped found.
Another was Watkins Glen, their is a painting of Ben on the Pole there, reflect back to Ben's story and a link at the bottom of the story.

The Red concept car is the one that Hendrick's curator believes was destroyed in a engine fire mishap, so this story goes at this time.

The F-88,it ended up in boxes and was shipped to California >> to E.L. Cords home, the big question is why.
We are still working on full details, BUT, at this time we believe that the story of why involves, Gordon Buerhig, Harley Earl, Ed Cole, E L Cord, Ben Harris and possibly Barry Goldwater and Wacky Arnolt.
>>Remember Barry's custom Jag from George Barris herein Autopuzzles !!

We have a document displaying that Ben went to GM to pick up a special one off 1956 corvette, Zora, Harley, Cole and the head of GM's motorama cars held a luncheon for Ben.
The special one off corvette for Ben came from the newly opened GM stylist division.
Why and how did all of this happen, this is very deep and also goes into why Kimberly and Ben became Pres and V Pres of the SCCA in it's infant years !!!
This also ties into why Ben and Kimberly were featured in the First Edition of "Sports Illustrated" for racing coverage in 1954.

There is much more to this story, but I felt it was necessary to briefly fill in what we unearthed before this puzzle is set in historical fact..

Another mind tease, Preston Tucker wanted Ben to design a new car for him, we found this in another historical document.
14 never before seen films have surfaced also>> one contains Biggs driving around road America before it was paved>> shaking down the track, was Ben and Kimberly and Arnolt with him?

The above and many other documents (100's), have kept us buried under, this is ALSO why we have not posted more to Ben's unfinished and rough story herein Autopuzzles, sigh !!
John

PS, I am going to forward this topic from Autopuzzles to the curator and Mr Hendricks for the Gateway Museum in Colorado which Mr Hendricks owns., as they are still working on the history of the F-88 .


« Last Edit: October 23, 2011, 10:08:54 AM by motorcar1 »

Offline Otto Puzzell

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Another period pic
You wanna be the man, you gotta Name That Car!

Offline Otto Puzzell

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Update - there were three:

"Sometime after the ’54 GM Motorama ended, Harley Earl decided he wanted an F-88 (XP-20, Shop Order 2292) for himself, so a second example painted red was assembled for him. GM vice president (and the former head of the Olds division) Sherrod Skinner had another F-88 (XP-20, Shop Order 2264) built, but it was not absolutely identical to the first F-88 (i.e., no quarter panel molding, wider pleats in the upholstery, etc.). This brought the total “production” of F-88s to three which is the total figure given in a vintage logbook from Oldsmobile Engineering owned by retired Olds engineer, John Perkins. His logbook originally belonged to his father, Ralph, who worked as a chassis engineer for this division".

Skinner's car is below:
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