Author Topic: Solved - NEH 1613: Lister-MG - 1956  (Read 1120 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40948
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Solved - NEH 1613: Lister-MG - 1956
« on: February 24, 2012, 06:26:13 AM »
Identify this car correctly for 1 point:

Google Image Search continues to raise its ugly head on AutoPuzzles.
For the sake of our newer members who may not be aware of past discussions on it, Google Image Search as a means of solving puzzles is banned on this website.

AutoPuzzles is primarily a game of automotive knowledge, not of who can copy and paste the quickest.

We ask all members to remember and respect this, and retain the right to ask puzzle-solvers how they came to their answer.

Have fun!

Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40948
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 1613
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2012, 04:46:18 AM »
Experts?
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline qwaszx

  • Expert
  • *
  • Posts: 341
  • Country: nl
  • Puzzle Points 60
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 1613
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2012, 01:45:12 PM »
Sabra, israelian Reliant (or south africa where they were produced also...)?

Offline tonyola

  • Expert
  • *
  • Posts: 199
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 78
  • Junior
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 1613
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2012, 06:45:59 PM »
Ashley 1172 coupe from around 1961 or so - an English special that used Ford UK components.

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40948
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 1613
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2012, 07:33:52 AM »
Sabra, israelian Reliant (or south africa where they were produced also...)?

Not a Sabra

Ashley 1172 coupe from around 1961 or so - an English special that used Ford UK components.

It's not an Ashley, although it seems a slightly modified Sportiva body has been used.  Mechanicals are not Ford.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 03:23:38 PM by Carnut »
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline Tackitt

  • Expert
  • *
  • Posts: 861
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 91
  • Thumb
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 1613
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2012, 05:47:42 AM »
Is it the LeMans Triumph Spitfire?

Offline Tackitt

  • Expert
  • *
  • Posts: 861
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 91
  • Thumb
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 1613
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2012, 05:51:51 AM »
Strike that!  I found it. I was looking for your damn Lola look-alike and stumbled on it.
It is a, or I should say the 1956 Lister-MG. A remade MG-TF with a dedion rear and everything. Interesting car.

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40948
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 1613
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2012, 06:42:28 AM »
Strike that!  I found it. I was looking for your damn Lola look-alike and stumbled on it.
It is a, or I should say the 1956 Lister-MG. A remade MG-TF with a dedion rear and everything. Interesting car.

Yes, very good, that's it!
Here's another picture of this unique car:

Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline D-type

  • Expert
  • *
  • Posts: 8144
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 251
  • A retired civil engineer interested in cars
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: Solved - NEH 1613: Lister-MG - 1956
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2012, 04:58:09 PM »
Strange - There is only one Lister-MG mentioned in Robert Edwards's history of the Lister marque, BHL1 / MER 303 from 1953 which was rebuilt in 1956 with a Maserati engine, in which form it still exists today.  So what is the history of this car?  Was it perhaps not produced by George Lister and Sons at Abbey Road, Cambridge, but copied from a Lister?
« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 03:40:59 PM by D-type »
Duncan Rollo

The more you learn, the more you realise how little you know.

Offline woodinsight

  • Professional
  • *
  • Posts: 13671
  • Country: fr
  • Puzzle Points 557
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: Solved - NEH 1613: Lister-MG - 1956
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2012, 01:39:58 AM »
.....and stranger still!
I have this car as a Meredith Ashley. Built by John Meredith of Gloucester c.1960 using an MG engine and an Ashley Sportiva body. The chassis base is not mentioned but could have been constructed by John Meredith.
No mention of Lister anywhere but I suppose it could have been copied from an early Lister.
I should add that I have both the photos shown in this puzzle.

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40948
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: Solved - NEH 1613: Lister-MG - 1956
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2012, 04:20:31 AM »
Funny but the photos are captioned 'Meredi' where I got them from, so his involvement is there.
Below are a few extracts from various sites about this car.  It's currently owned by a prominent collector in Switzerland and he's looking for information.  The way these are worded though, some seem to think this is the original Lister MG from 1954, which was rebodied with an Ashley body in about 1959!
We need a Lister expert to clear this one up..

QUOTE

Lister-MG Chassis
H Modified
Introduction
Engine: MG TF
Current Owner: Antoine Vauthey in Switzerland
It has an Ashley body but shortened to fit the chassis.
The log book is from May 1956 and at that time they wrote the engine number XPEG RS/5053 in it. It can also be XPEG 125/5053 or XPEG 12S/5053.
In 1962, the engine blew up (seriously) so they removed it and then the car was put in a locked up garage until 2004.
The old pictures are from the last guy who drove the car ... in 1962!
The fiberglass shell was fitted to the car in the late 1950's (approx 1958). Antoine doesn't know which type of body was on before.

The car has independent rear suspension with a Dedion rear axle and inboard brakes.

"It was built for racing, but I have no records about it.
I am quite sure that this is not a Lester, because the dimensions of the tube are different diameter. The shape is more like the early Lister MG or Bristol," reports Antoine.

Antoine is trying to collect any information about these cars, so any help is welcome. Please contact Antoine Vauthey if you can help.
UNQUOTE

QUOTE
1954 Lister MG
The Story Behind the 1954 Lister
Lister Cars is one of the few smaller car manufacturers during the early half of the 1900s that managed to carve a niche in the automobile industry because of a product that is now considered as a classic car.

When the company was at its precocious beginnings, Lister Cars (then known as George Lister and Sons) was known for one major creation: the 1954 Lister, a classic car with a very rich history.

The 1954 Lister was actually developed specifically for the racer Archie Scott Brown, a renowned Scottish race car driver. Although Scott Brown was not able to win any major tourneys such as the Formula One or the Italian Grand Prix, he gained popularity due to his persistence despite his disability. He was born with major disablement on his right arm and both of his legs. These should have been sufficient reasons for anyone not to try professional racing. Still, his love for the sport made him moderately successful during his time.

At first, Scott Brown rode a Tojeiro (specifically, a John Tojeiro, a famed car manufacturer who has developed a number of classic car creations during the 50s and 60s). Later on, however, Scott Brown inspired Lister to create the now classic car, the 1954 Lister.

The car had an MG engine and tubular ladder chassis, pretty much like the Coopers during that time. But the competition proved to be too tight for car due to the engine, even with the talented racer behind its wheel. This prompted Lister to shift from an MG engine to a Bristol engine. The change in the engine worked, as Scott Brown proved to be the surprise star racer for the 1954 racing season, snagging top spots in competitions like the British Grand Prix.

The following year, the company created a few Listers inspired by the ones that raced the 1954 racing season. Year 1957 saw the Lister with a new aerodynamic aluminum body, making it the most refined Lister car at the time. However, the following year, the company further improved the car by giving it a sleeker body. The brakes of the car - one of the components of the Lister that was often criticized - were improved as well.

Unfortunately, the demise of Scott Brown also marked the halt of the Lister’s production. In 1958, Scott Brown suffered severe injuries after an accident at the Circuit de Spa-Francorchamps - injuries that later caused his death.

Despite the unfortunate endnote in the history of the 1954 Lister, this amazing creation remains to be one of the most precious classic car creations today.

© CarshowClassic.com All rights reserved
UQUOTE
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline Allan L

  • Feature Writer
  • *
  • Posts: 4820
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 413
  • Forum Host in Vintage!
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: Solved - NEH 1613: Lister-MG - 1956
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2012, 04:42:20 AM »
Another case where all we learn is that information taken from the internet is quite unreliable! ;D
For example, why would you take any notice of technical comments from someone who describes a de Dion rear axle as independent rear suspension?
As for "Scott Brown rode a Tojeiro (specifically, a John Tojeiro, a famed car manufacturer who has developed a number of classic car creations during the 50s and 60s)" and ignoring the use of "rode" the cars that JT designed were Tojeiros and the only one that wasn't, the AC Ace, was developed from one.
I can't see how the puzzle car can claim to be a Lister - if it has a maker's plate it would be interesting to see and analyse it.
Opinionated but sometimes wrong

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40948
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: Solved - NEH 1613: Lister-MG - 1956
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2012, 04:44:17 AM »
ignoring the use of "rode" the cars that JT designed

Google translate I think..!
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline woodinsight

  • Professional
  • *
  • Posts: 13671
  • Country: fr
  • Puzzle Points 557
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: Solved - NEH 1613: Lister-MG - 1956
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2012, 04:48:11 AM »
Here's a photo of the original Lister-MG (c/n: BHL 1) of 1954 -

Offline D-type

  • Expert
  • *
  • Posts: 8144
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 251
  • A retired civil engineer interested in cars
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: Solved - NEH 1613: Lister-MG - 1956
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2012, 04:53:48 PM »
Perhaps the puzzle car is a a rebodied (and re-engined) Lester-MG rather than Lister-MG?
Duncan Rollo

The more you learn, the more you realise how little you know.

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40948
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: Solved - NEH 1613: Lister-MG - 1956
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2012, 06:26:11 PM »
Perhaps the puzzle car is a a rebodied (and re-engined) Lester-MG rather than Lister-MG?

It's current owner, prominent Swiss collector Antoine Vauthey, states "I am quite sure that this is not a Lester, because the dimensions of the tube are different diameter."

I think someone wants this car to be the 1954 Lister-MG rather than it actually being it..
What it actually is seems definitely open to debate!
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline sixtee5cuda

  • Professional
  • *
  • Posts: 5917
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 425
  • Mopar Man
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: Solved - NEH 1613: Lister-MG - 1956
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2014, 06:51:48 PM »
1956 may be a questionable year.  The following image is from December of 1953, showing Archie Scott Brown testing the bare Lister-MG chassis at Snetterton.

"This first test was not without problems, a half-shaft seized sending Archie into the scenery".  Does this imply a truly independent rear?

The original Lister-MG body was by Wakefield of Byfleet.