AutoPuzzles - The Internet's Museum of Rare Cars!

Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => 2012 => Topic started by: pnegyesi on November 29, 2012, 08:45:45 AM

Title: Solved: PN #413 -- Pan, 1919
Post by: pnegyesi on November 29, 2012, 08:45:45 AM
Please identify this car for a point
Title: Re: PN #413
Post by: pnegyesi on December 06, 2012, 06:16:19 AM
Experts?
Title: Re: PN #413
Post by: RayTheRat on December 06, 2012, 07:40:21 AM
From Italy?
Title: Re: PN #413
Post by: pnegyesi on December 06, 2012, 08:27:32 AM
no
Title: Re: PN #413
Post by: RayTheRat on December 06, 2012, 09:06:04 AM
France?
Title: Re: PN #413
Post by: pnegyesi on December 06, 2012, 09:26:01 AM
no
Title: Re: PN #413
Post by: targhediferro on December 11, 2012, 12:27:31 AM
United states, perhaps a Dodge?
Title: Re: PN #413
Post by: pnegyesi on December 11, 2012, 02:28:19 AM
Yes, from the US of A and much, much more obscure than a Dodge
Title: Re: PN #413
Post by: pnegyesi on December 13, 2012, 09:10:53 AM
Professionals?
Title: Re: PN #413
Post by: RayTheRat on December 23, 2012, 06:56:31 PM
Maxwell?
Title: Re: PN #413
Post by: pnegyesi on December 24, 2012, 12:43:19 AM
no
Title: Re: PN #413
Post by: João on December 24, 2012, 08:37:37 AM
Circa 1916 Elgin Six Touring Car?
Title: Re: PN #413
Post by: pnegyesi on December 24, 2012, 10:11:56 AM
not an Elgin, year is about right
Title: Re: PN #413
Post by: nicanary on December 25, 2012, 12:47:57 PM
Oakland?
Title: Re: PN #413
Post by: pnegyesi on December 25, 2012, 01:41:22 PM
sorry, car is younger than 1916. Not an Oakland - much more obscure
Title: Re: PN #413
Post by: nicanary on December 26, 2012, 10:54:20 AM
There were scores of American makes at that time, and the bodystyle/radiator were pretty generic. Which means going through Georgano in alphabetic order - at Xmas time! Allen?
Title: Re: PN #413
Post by: RayTheRat on December 26, 2012, 11:28:03 AM
There were scores of American makes at that time, and the bodystyle/radiator were pretty generic. Which means going through Georgano in alphabetic order - at Xmas time! Allen?

Agree completely!  The only thing even slightly unique about it is that it appears to be a little smaller than most touring cars of that period.  I think we could use a hint.   ;)

Title: Re: PN #413
Post by: pnegyesi on December 26, 2012, 01:32:40 PM
not an Allen. This was a gigantic dream by a man - in addition to a car company, there was a town built with the same name as the automobile. The town was supposed to cater for the workers, but the whole project folded quickly.

Now this will be very easy :)
Title: Re: PN #413
Post by: RayTheRat on December 26, 2012, 01:52:40 PM
Amana?
Title: Re: PN #413
Post by: pnegyesi on December 26, 2012, 02:01:02 PM
no
Title: Re: PN #413
Post by: RayTheRat on December 26, 2012, 07:51:12 PM
Located in the middle of the US?
Title: Re: PN #413
Post by: 4popoid on December 28, 2012, 11:05:52 PM
How about a 1913 Richmond "Four" (Model R), five passenger touring, manufactured in Richmond, IN?
Title: Re: PN #413
Post by: pnegyesi on December 29, 2012, 12:13:40 AM
not a Richmond. The state is not in the middle of the US, it is close to the Canadian border
Title: Re: PN #413
Post by: 4popoid on December 29, 2012, 03:46:57 AM
OK, let's try a: 1914 Luverne 535, five passenger tourer, manufactured in Luverne, Minnesota.
Title: Re: PN #413
Post by: pnegyesi on December 29, 2012, 12:29:39 PM
not a Luverne. The towns you mentioned all existed prior to this car. But the town I have in mind was built because of the car
Title: Re: PN #413
Post by: 4popoid on December 29, 2012, 09:00:12 PM
Despite searching hundreds automobile brands, I can find no brand carrying the name of the town in which it was manufactured, and which town was created because of the manufacture of the car.  The only U.S. town that I can find that was specifically created for the manufacture of transportation vehicles was Pullman, Illinois (now part of Chicago), which was created by George Pullman, head of the Pullman Palace Car Co. (later the Pullman Co.).  The Pullman Palace Car Co. made railroad passenger cars, and, as far as I can determine, never tried to produce automobiles, although they did produce some automobile bodies for Packard, Moon, and other automobile manufacturers.

There was, however, a Pullman automobile, but it was produced by The Pullman Motor Car Company (1905-1917) of York, Pennsylvania.  This company was founded by A. P. Broomell, and was in no way related to the Pullman Company, except that the choice of the automobile name was apparently intended to reflect the luxury, and very high quality, of the Pullman railroad cars.  Since I have found a few Pullman automobile advertising pictures from about the correct time period, and which resemble the mystery car, I'll take another stab and suggest that the mystery car might be a: 1915/17 Pullman Junior 4 cylinder/5 passenger tourer by The Pullman Motor Car Company of York, PA. 
Title: Re: PN #413
Post by: pnegyesi on December 29, 2012, 11:51:49 PM
"The town was supposed to cater for the workers" - please remember the cars were built in one town and this new town was created for housing the workers.
This was a really, really big project - and not a Pullman, but it started with a "P"
Title: Re: PN #413
Post by: RayTheRat on December 30, 2012, 01:56:06 AM
not a Richmond. The state is not in the middle of the US, it is close to the Canadian border

Let me phrase that differently: Is the state in the western half of of the US or the eastern?
Title: Re: PN #413
Post by: woodinsight on December 30, 2012, 02:12:15 AM
I think we are talking about a car named Pan, produced by the Pan Motor Co., St. Cloud, Minnesota between 1919 & 1921.
It was the brainchild of Samuel Conner Pandolfo, a promoter and high-pressure salesman who had grandiose plans to produce a car under his own name (shortened to Pan). He centred his operations on St. Cloud MN where he built a factory and adjacent residential accommodation for his workers and their families.
Despite initial success with the manufacture of the Pan car, production ground to a halt with the indictment of Pandolfo on charges of fraud involving the manipulation of stock worth $10 million. He was jailed for 10 years at Leavenworth Federal Penitentiary in Kansas.
Released after serving two and a half years in prison, he went on to found a health food business and to patent a device for making doughnuts. He lived until his mid-80s.

Back to the puzzle car of which a total of 737 were completed.
It was built almost exclusively as a 5-seater tourer powered by a 4076cc 6-cylinder F-head engine built in the Pan factory.
Title: Re: PN #413
Post by: RayTheRat on December 30, 2012, 12:19:27 PM
You're absolutely right about Pandolfo and his "Panzie schemes" but he didn't build St. Cloud, MN for the workers of the plant.  It was a section of St. Cloud (I guess we'd call it a subdivision or "bedroom community" today) that was nicknamed "Pantown." 

Reading about Pandolfo makes me think that he got a raw deal.  He may have been right on the edge of the law, but the judge refused evidence that the plant was actually engaged in making cars; as a result, the jury never learned of this and convicted him.  When he got out of federal prison and went back to St. Cloud, he was greeted with a group of well-wishers and a brass band.

The judge in the case seems to have a much more tarnished history than Pandolfo.  What a mess!

Title: Re: PN #413
Post by: 4popoid on December 30, 2012, 02:20:38 PM
Sounds like Pan is the correct answer.

By the way, does anyone else, besides me, think the driver of the car resembles Al Capone?  Perhaps, assuming the driver was Sam Pandolfo, we know what Big Al was doing before he came to Chicago.
Title: Re: PN #413
Post by: pnegyesi on December 30, 2012, 02:51:12 PM
Yes, this is the first Pan automobile, driven by Pandolfo who chauffeured his wife Anna, company directors Fred Schilplin and Peter Thielman (left  and center), and designer Victor Gauvreau.
Congratulations to woodinsight
Title: Re: PN #413
Post by: woodinsight on December 30, 2012, 03:16:59 PM
You're absolutely right about Pandolfo and his "Panzie schemes" but he didn't build St. Cloud, MN for the workers of the plant.  It was a section of St. Cloud (I guess we'd call it a subdivision or "bedroom community" today) that was nicknamed "Pantown." 

Reading about Pandolfo makes me think that he got a raw deal.  He may have been right on the edge of the law, but the judge refused evidence that the plant was actually engaged in making cars; as a result, the jury never learned of this and convicted him.  When he got out of federal prison and went back to St. Cloud, he was greeted with a group of well-wishers and a brass band.

The judge in the case seems to have a much more tarnished history than Pandolfo.  What a mess!


Interesting information Ray - as you say what a mess!
Title: Re: PN #413
Post by: woodinsight on December 30, 2012, 03:19:22 PM
Yes, this is the first Pan automobile, driven by Pandolfo who chauffeured his wife Anna, company directors Fred Schilplin and Peter Thielman (left  and center), and designer Victor Gauvreau.
Congratulations to woodinsight
Thanks Pal... :)
Title: Re: Solved: PN #413 -- Pan, 1919
Post by: RayTheRat on December 30, 2012, 10:22:46 PM
A few photos to go along with the car.  I vaguely remember reading about Pandolfo and his prison term, but since the ad showed St. Cloud, I didn't make the connection.  Well done, Mr. Wood.
Title: Re: Solved: PN #413 -- Pan, 1919
Post by: pnegyesi on December 31, 2012, 12:11:11 AM
thanks Ray
Title: Re: Solved: PN #413 -- Pan, 1919
Post by: RayTheRat on December 31, 2012, 06:59:21 AM
My pleasure, Pal.