JPG #247 Solved : 1913-23 Delaunay-Belleville HA 4 by Guldener

[João]

For one point, please identify this car, the coachbuilder and the year.

[FrontMan]

Delaunay-Bellville, 1927, Rothschild.

[João]

Yes, it's a Delaunay-Belleville!

Locked for you to tell me the right year and coachbuilder.

[FrontMan]

1928 and Kellner?

[João]

Not by Kellner, it's an obscure coachbuilder. Not from 1928, it's older.

Locked 24H!

[FrontMan]

This was auctioned recently, it's Marechal Joffre's 1913 Guldaner bodied D-B.

[João]

Very impressive 

But that's not the right name, it's not Guldaner....

[4popoid]

The car pictured is a 1913 Delaunay Belleville Type HA 4 - Limousine, with body work (modified in 1923) by Guldener.  The auction bill (in French), from which this information is gleaned, is unclear as to whether Guldener is the original coach builder, or only the 1923 modifier, but no other coach builder is listed.

[João]

Yes it's. It's Guldener..not Guldaner.

Congrats.

[Wendax]

I saw that car myself in 2002 at the former Musée ,,La Belle Epoque de l'Automobile" in beautiful Pont-l'Evêque, Normandy. There it was presented as a 1911 Delaunay-Belleville Type HH4. It was the personal car of Marechal Joffre, originally bodied as a Coupé de Ville. In 1922, it was converted to a limousine in order to give the faithful chauffeur Goby a better protection. When the Marechal died in 1931, the car was given to Goby, whose family eventually sold it to the museum. When the museum closed and the collection was auctioned, this car was described as a Type HA4 from 1913 with a body by Guldaner.

[João]

Guldener :

[Wendax]

That makes the coachbuilder's spelling clear. Can you tell whether it is a HA 4 or a HH 4? I don't have information about that early Delaunay-Bellevilles.

[4popoid]

The auction bill clearly lists it as an HA 4, but auction bills are sometimes wrong.

[Carnut]

The auction bill clearly lists it as an HA 4, but auction bills are sometimes wrong.

..make that "very often" wrong!

[Wendax]

The museum catalog had it as HH 4, but museum catalogs are sometimes wrong, too.