AutoPuzzles - The Internet's Museum of Rare Cars!

Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => 2012 => Topic started by: Paul Jaray on January 04, 2012, 04:42:56 AM

Title: Solved -PJ442- Pivot 24 hp Roi de Belge Tourer 1905
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 04, 2012, 04:42:56 AM
Do you know this car?
1 point for correct identification.
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Wendax on January 12, 2012, 02:51:38 PM
American?
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 12, 2012, 04:27:26 PM
Not American...
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 18, 2012, 03:15:05 PM
Back to the pros?
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: woodinsight on January 18, 2012, 03:18:31 PM
A very comfortable French car?
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 18, 2012, 03:39:29 PM
Ouì!
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: João on January 18, 2012, 03:47:29 PM
From 1906?
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 18, 2012, 04:02:02 PM
Minus one.  ;)
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Oguerrerob on January 18, 2012, 04:37:22 PM
Darracq Flying Fifteen Rear entrance tonneau 1905?
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 18, 2012, 04:39:55 PM
Year is correct.
Not a Darracq and not that known.
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 19, 2012, 07:48:04 AM
A french car from 1905...who knows more?
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: woodinsight on January 19, 2012, 10:20:48 AM
Gobron-Brillié?
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 19, 2012, 10:30:57 AM
Not that. Single name.
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Arunas on January 19, 2012, 11:46:11 AM
Chenu 24hp?
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: woodinsight on January 19, 2012, 11:55:27 AM
Brouhot 40hp?
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 19, 2012, 11:59:55 AM
Chenu 24hp?
Brouhot 40hp?
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: woodinsight on January 19, 2012, 12:04:15 PM
Rossel?
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Arunas on January 19, 2012, 12:04:36 PM
Hautier?
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 19, 2012, 12:05:28 PM
Rossel?
Hautier?
:thumbsdown:
 :thumbsdown:
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Arunas on January 19, 2012, 12:06:21 PM
L'Automotrice?
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Oguerrerob on January 19, 2012, 12:10:53 PM
Aries?
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: woodinsight on January 19, 2012, 12:16:04 PM
CGV (Charron, Girardot et Voigt)?
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 19, 2012, 12:21:43 PM
L'Automotrice?
Aries?
CGV (Charron, Girardot et Voigt)?
:thumbsdown:
 :thumbsdown:
 :thumbsdown:
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: woodinsight on January 19, 2012, 12:25:02 PM
Borderel?
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 19, 2012, 12:26:16 PM
Borderel?
:thumbsdown:
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Oguerrerob on January 19, 2012, 12:29:37 PM
Cottin & Desgouttes?
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 19, 2012, 12:31:38 PM
Not that. Single name.
Still a single name.
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: woodinsight on January 19, 2012, 12:32:28 PM
Radia?
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Oguerrerob on January 19, 2012, 12:36:47 PM
Hurtu?
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 19, 2012, 12:43:25 PM
Radia?
Hurtu?
:thumbsdown:
:thumbsdown:
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Oguerrerob on January 19, 2012, 12:44:30 PM
Mors?
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 19, 2012, 12:46:29 PM
Mors?
:thumbsdown:
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: woodinsight on January 19, 2012, 01:24:52 PM
Automoto?
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 19, 2012, 01:31:08 PM
Automoto?
:thumbsdown:

How many french cars built a 24hp car in 1905!
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Oguerrerob on January 19, 2012, 01:47:10 PM
Serpollet?
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Arunas on January 19, 2012, 01:53:38 PM
Marvel?
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: woodinsight on January 19, 2012, 01:57:50 PM
Last try - Westinghouse?
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 19, 2012, 02:00:45 PM
Serpollet?
Marvel?
Last try - Westinghouse?
:thumbsdown:
:thumbsdown:
:thumbsdown:
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Oguerrerob on January 19, 2012, 02:09:02 PM
Berliet?
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 19, 2012, 02:11:55 PM
Berliet?
:thumbsdown:
I'd suggest to narrow the list of single-named French makers active in 1905...
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Oguerrerob on January 19, 2012, 02:22:22 PM
Unic?
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 19, 2012, 02:34:00 PM
Unic?
:thumbsdown:
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Oguerrerob on January 19, 2012, 02:40:30 PM
Cottereau?
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 19, 2012, 03:19:42 PM
Cottereau?
:thumbsdown:
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Oguerrerob on January 19, 2012, 03:50:20 PM
Barre?
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 19, 2012, 04:14:27 PM
Barre?
:thumbsdown:
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: pnegyesi on January 20, 2012, 07:41:20 AM
Ader?
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Wendax on January 20, 2012, 07:42:57 AM
Rossel?
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 20, 2012, 07:49:08 AM
Ader?
Rossel?
:thumbsdown:
 :thumbsdown:
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: woodinsight on January 20, 2012, 09:55:33 AM
Magali?
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 20, 2012, 12:40:15 PM
Magali?
:thumbsdown:
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: woodinsight on January 20, 2012, 12:56:45 PM
This is like picking a needle from a haystack - I have another 16 makes under letter 'M' alone.
Did the manufacturer only produce cars in 1905?
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Allemano on January 20, 2012, 01:00:24 PM
Boyer? (Noé Boyer et Cie.)
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 20, 2012, 01:05:57 PM
Berliet?
:thumbsdown:
I'd suggest to narrow the list of single-named French makers active in 1905...
This is what I meant.
You can drop those 16 makes.
Not only in 1905...slightly before and not much longer after.(according to 4 different sources)
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 20, 2012, 01:06:37 PM
Boyer? (Noé Boyer et Cie.)
:thumbsdown:
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Allemano on January 20, 2012, 01:09:37 PM
Louet?
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 20, 2012, 01:10:05 PM
Louet?
:thumbsdown:
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Allemano on January 20, 2012, 01:11:31 PM
Tourand?
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 20, 2012, 01:13:24 PM
Tourand?
:thumbsdown:
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: woodinsight on January 20, 2012, 01:17:40 PM
Express?
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 20, 2012, 03:45:37 PM
Express?
:thumbsdown:
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Wendax on January 20, 2012, 05:02:10 PM
Pivot 24 HP, built by Automobiles Pivot in Puteaux
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Oguerrerob on January 20, 2012, 10:59:43 PM
Berliet?
:thumbsdown:
I'd suggest to narrow the list of single-named French makers active in 1905...
This is what I meant.
You can drop those 16 makes.
Not only in 1905...slightly before and not much longer after.(according to 4 different sources)

BERLIET (1.895 - 1.939)
Berliet was a French manufacturer of automobiles, trucks and other utility vehicles. Marius Berliet began experimenting with automobiles in 1894. After a few single-cylinder vehicles in 1900 built its first twin.
In 1902, Berliet took over the plant of Audibert and Lavirotte in Lyon. Berliet then began to build four-cylinder cars with honeycomb radiator and steel chassis frame instead of wood as usual. The following year, launched a similar model Mercedes that time.
In 1906, Berliet sold a license for your model was manufactured by the American Locomotive Company.
Before the First World War, Berliet offered a range of models ranging from 60 hp to 8CV. The main models available four-cylinder engine (2412cc and 4398 cc, respectively) and had a six-cylinder model 9500cc. Between 1910 and 1912 produced a 12CV and 1539cc model. In 1912 only six units manufactured on request.
In 1917, Berliet trucks and began building cars for the French army. The company produced 40 units a day. After the war, produced models and 2613 cc 12CV, 15CV and 22CV y3308 cc and 4398cc.
In 1924 appeared a new model of 7CV and 1159 cc, and six new models appeared in 1927.
Since 1933, only offered the four-cylinder models 1600cc and 2000cc.
The only car offered by Berliet from 1936 was the Berliet Dauphine powered by a 2-liter engine.
The passenger car production ceased in 1939 and after the Second World War the company produced only trucks.
In 1967, Berliet was absorbed by Citroën.
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 21, 2012, 04:24:05 AM
Berliet?
:thumbsdown:
I'd suggest to narrow the list of single-named French makers active in 1905...
This is what I meant.
You can drop those 16 makes.
Not only in 1905...slightly before and not much longer after.(according to 4 different sources)

BERLIET (1.895 - 1.939)
Berliet was a French manufacturer of automobiles, trucks and other utility vehicles. Marius Berliet began experimenting with automobiles in 1894. After a few single-cylinder vehicles in 1900 built its first twin.
In 1902, Berliet took over the plant of Audibert and Lavirotte in Lyon. Berliet then began to build four-cylinder cars with honeycomb radiator and steel chassis frame instead of wood as usual. The following year, launched a similar model Mercedes that time.
In 1906, Berliet sold a license for your model was manufactured by the American Locomotive Company.
Before the First World War, Berliet offered a range of models ranging from 60 hp to 8CV. The main models available four-cylinder engine (2412cc and 4398 cc, respectively) and had a six-cylinder model 9500cc. Between 1910 and 1912 produced a 12CV and 1539cc model. In 1912 only six units manufactured on request.
In 1917, Berliet trucks and began building cars for the French army. The company produced 40 units a day. After the war, produced models and 2613 cc 12CV, 15CV and 22CV y3308 cc and 4398cc.
In 1924 appeared a new model of 7CV and 1159 cc, and six new models appeared in 1927.
Since 1933, only offered the four-cylinder models 1600cc and 2000cc.
The only car offered by Berliet from 1936 was the Berliet Dauphine powered by a 2-liter engine.
The passenger car production ceased in 1939 and after the Second World War the company produced only trucks.
In 1967, Berliet was absorbed by Citroën.


Sorry Oguerrerob, I don't understand this   :-\

Pivot 24 HP, built by Automobiles Pivot in Puteaux

Seems we have a winner!
Pivot (1904-1908), picture taken from a brochure for the American market.
Well done, point for you!
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Oguerrerob on January 21, 2012, 06:33:02 AM
Berliet?
:thumbsdown:
I'd suggest to narrow the list of single-named French makers active in 1905...
This is what I meant.
You can drop those 16 makes.
Not only in 1905...slightly before and not much longer after.(according to 4 different sources)
I felt your post disrepectful toward me.
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 21, 2012, 08:51:19 AM
If you felt so, I apologize...but I can't see how it can be read as irrespectful.
You all were naming one by one the hundreds of French makers, I suggest to narrow down the list with simple questions (is it still active, major brand, in business for more than 5 years, and so on...) but my suggestion went unnoticed.
This reply:
This is like picking a needle from a haystack - I have another 16 makes under letter 'M' alone.
Did the manufacturer only produce cars in 1905?
lead me to this answer:
Berliet?
:thumbsdown:
I'd suggest to narrow the list of single-named French makers active in 1905...
This is what I meant.
You can drop those 16 makes.
Not only in 1905...slightly before and not much longer after.(according to 4 different sources)
My comment was underlining that it was indeed like picking a needle in a haystack and that the 16 makes starting with M were useless...nothing to do with your reply or with Berliet (that was a legitimate guess after all..).

Still friends?  ;D
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Oguerrerob on January 21, 2012, 10:57:04 AM
Sorry, if I overeacted. Sure, Still friends  ;D
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 21, 2012, 03:13:35 PM

And Wendax got his point #600!

Congratulations!  :applause: :applause: :applause:
Title: Re: Solved -PJ442- Pivot 24 hp Roi de Belge Tourer 1905
Post by: Wendax on January 21, 2012, 03:22:52 PM
Grazie!
Title: Re: PJ - 442
Post by: woodinsight on January 21, 2012, 05:01:39 PM

And Wendax got his point #600!

Congratulations!  :applause: :applause: :applause:

Amazingly quick! Congratulations Wendax!  :bow:
Title: Re: Solved -PJ442- Pivot 24 hp Roi de Belge Tourer 1905
Post by: Oguerrerob on January 21, 2012, 10:34:27 PM
Wendax.  Great!!! Well done!! Keep going!!
Title: Re: Solved -PJ442- Pivot 24 hp Roi de Belge Tourer 1905
Post by: Wendax on January 22, 2012, 01:55:49 AM
Thank you all for making this such a great community