Author Topic: Solved - NEH 1571: Fiat 1100E Zagato Panoramica Giardinera - 1951 (Read 1327 times)

Carnut · « **on:** February 13, 2012, 07:58:56 AM »

What's this, by whom, from when - for 1 point?

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fgsavoia · « **Reply #1 on:** February 13, 2012, 07:25:59 PM »

Fiat 1400 Zagato Panoramica transformed later in sw. Circa 1952

Carnut · « **Reply #2 on:** February 14, 2012, 04:47:20 AM »

Quote from: fgsavoia on February 13, 2012, 07:25:59 PM

Fiat 1400 Zagato Panoramica transformed later in sw. Circa 1952

It's a Fiat Panoramica Zagato yes, but I have a slightly different model, slightly different name and slightly different date!
Locked for you for 24 hours to see if you can come up with what I have..

fgsavoia · « **Reply #3 on:** February 14, 2012, 04:29:00 PM »

I only know that this car was transformed on request of its owner, a Singer sewing machine Dealer. Before this, this car raced in a Mille Miglia.
Every other name was assigned later, but not from Zagato.

Carnut · « **Reply #4 on:** February 14, 2012, 05:01:15 PM »

Quote from: fgsavoia on February 14, 2012, 04:29:00 PM

I only know that this car was transformed on request of its owner, a Singer sewing machine Dealer. Before this, this car raced in a Mille Miglia.
Every other name was assigned later, but not from Zagato.

You might be right but I'll have to look further into it...
Are you going to give me the other names though?!

Carnut · « **Reply #5 on:** February 16, 2012, 05:30:36 AM »

Open to all Rookies again!

Carnut · « **Reply #6 on:** February 21, 2012, 05:12:18 AM »

I'm moving this one to the Experts.
The information I have been given so far doesn't fully tally with what I have so let's see what the Experts can come up with.

als15 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 21, 2012, 06:07:49 AM »

I've found it in some online sources as "Giardinetta Panoramica", but I think it's a modern definition.
In my opinion, fgsavoia already provided the correct answer.

Iluvatar · « **Reply #8 on:** February 21, 2012, 06:33:11 AM »

I have it as 1100E

Iluvatar · « **Reply #9 on:** February 21, 2012, 06:34:09 AM »

Quote from: Iluvatar on February 21, 2012, 06:33:11 AM

I have it as 1100E

...and "Giardiniera Panoramica Zagato 1951"...

Iluvatar · « **Reply #10 on:** February 21, 2012, 06:42:31 AM »

front pic

Carnut · « **Reply #11 on:** February 21, 2012, 07:01:15 AM »

Quote from: als15 on February 21, 2012, 06:07:49 AM

I've found it in some online sources as "Giardinetta Panoramica", but I think it's a modern definition.
In my opinion, fgsavoia already provided the correct answer.

Thanks for that.
I don't know the correct answer but the info I had tallies with what Iluvatar has given, that it's an 1100E from 1951, whether or not the "Giardinetta Panormica" was added later. What's not in dispute is that it's a Fiat by Zagato!
Id like to get it right; can anyone provide proof of their answer?

thorax · « **Reply #12 on:** February 21, 2012, 08:02:09 AM »

another photo:

Carnut · « **Reply #13 on:** February 21, 2012, 08:06:50 AM »

Thanks thorax.
Does that explain the story any more accurately?
See it's referred to as a Fiat 1100, so fgsavoia was not right about the model...

als15 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 21, 2012, 08:09:07 AM »

I dont't think that any prove of the name actually exsists.
It's indeed a 1100, and that's clear having the opportunity to give a look to the mechanics.
It's also for sure a Panoramica Zagato, because it's the official designation of this type of construction with split flat glass windscreen and formed plexiglas windows.
Giardinetta (even if patented by Viotti and hence theoretically not to be used by other manufacturer) was a very common definition in Italian language.
At the end of the day, being this a one-off for commercial purpose, I think nobody cared to give it an official name and never see it mentioned in any Zagato literature.

Carnut · « **Reply #15 on:** February 21, 2012, 09:11:14 AM »

Thanks. So all in all I would say Iluvatar's info is the closest to what we believe to be correct, but if fgsavoia can prove that this car's history is as he says then I can always give him a point as well!

So it's Solved by Iluvatar!

And here's one more photo:

Siata1 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 22, 2012, 01:42:23 PM »

Here the comment of my friend, who owns the car since 1994. The car was never used in the Mille Miglia.
The chassis was delivered to Zagato in May 1951, the complete car went to the buyer in Bologna Sept. 12, 1951. The correct designation is Fiat 1100 E Zagato Panoramica Giardiniera
The chassis is a Fiat 1100 E with small alterations to the engine (smaller radiator, Nardi air cleaner, exhaust at the drivers side). It was used by the original buyer until 1956, then sold to Imola and converted from five seats to a childrens hearse. It was in use until 1975 and renovated in the Eighties.
The current owner needs pictures of an identical car, which was shown at the Turin Motor Show in 1952.

thorax · « **Reply #17 on:** February 22, 2012, 04:52:32 PM »

Quote from: Carnut on February 21, 2012, 08:06:50 AM

Thanks thorax.
Does that explain the story any more accurately?
See it's referred to as a Fiat 1100, so fgsavoia was not right about the model...

Siata says right.
I've found another article in which the author tells about twelve "Necchi" Zagato cars: I'll post tomorrow

fgsavoia · « **Reply #18 on:** February 22, 2012, 05:09:40 PM »

I was wrong about the displacement but:

- "Giardiniera" was a generic term to indicate a station wagon. They couldn't use the term "Giardinetta" because it was registered by Viotti. All cars in this shape were called "Giardiniera", including a bunch of Fiats.
- John de Boer (The Italian Car Registry) inspected the car in 1989 (before the actual owner) and he was told that 'til 1970 the car had verification seals on steering column.

Has it a Fiat base? It's clear, like the 80% of italian coachbuilt cars between 40's and 60's. So should we call all cars with the name of the producer of chassis?

That's all.

thorax · « **Reply #19 on:** February 25, 2012, 05:31:29 PM »

the author says that Zagato made twelve "Necchi" cars which were shown in april 19th 1952 in Pavia in the first meeting of Fiat 1100 Zagato Giardiniera

News:

Author Topic: Solved - NEH 1571: Fiat 1100E Zagato Panoramica Giardinera - 1951 (Read 1327 times)