Topic: Solved - MJW #838 - Riley RM 1.5 litre 1947 coupe by FLM Panelcraft? c.1953

[woodinsight]

I thought this one might have been posted before but apparently not....
Identify the make and year for a point and I'll offer an extra point for the coachbuilder (with proof) as I don't know.

[woodinsight]

Experts?

[Iluvatar]

Alfa Romeo 1900?

[woodinsight]

Alfa Romeo 1900?

Not an Alfa...

[als15]

Body by Zagato? Perhaps a Bristol 407?

[72Must]

Riley RM ca '53 , UK coachbuilder possibly FLM panelcraft ?

[woodinsight]

Body by Zagato? Perhaps a Bristol 407?

Neither Bristol or Zagato.....

[woodinsight]

Riley RM ca '53 , UK coachbuilder possibly FLM panelcraft ?

Yes it's a Riley RM - originally from 1947 and rebodied c.1953.
So, one point for you.
Do you have proof that FLM Panelcraft bodied it? (I don't know).
A point for anyone providing positive identification of the coachbuilder.....

[woodinsight]

I've just discovered that the coachbuilder was indeed FLM Panelcraft.
So the extra point goes to 72Must and the puzzle is now solved.

[Carnut]

I've just discovered that the coachbuilder was indeed FLM Panelcraft.
So the extra point goes to 72Must and the puzzle is now solved.

And I see you've captioned it correctly as a Riley 1.5 too.
I was amazed when you confirmed 72must's identification of it as a Riley RM;  I Googled endlessly for a Panelcraft or coachbuilt Riley RM but couldn't find this (although frankly Googling for a Panelcraft of special-bodied Riley 1.5 didn't produce any results either...)

Strictly speaking it never actually got a correct full ID...

[woodinsight]

I've just discovered that the coachbuilder was indeed FLM Panelcraft.
So the extra point goes to 72Must and the puzzle is now solved.

And I see you've captioned it correctly as a Riley 1.5 too.
I was amazed when you confirmed 72must's identification of it as a Riley RM;  I Googled endlessly for a Panelcraft or coachbuilt Riley RM but couldn't find this (although frankly Googling for a Panelcraft of special-bodied Riley 1.5 didn't produce any results either...)

Strictly speaking it never actually got a correct full ID...

My source on FLM Panelcraft indicates that they built a 'good-looking coupe body on a Riley RM chassis' and although I have no photographic from that source I do seem to remember it was confirmed as being by FLM Panelcraft by a previous owner in the letters column of an old magazine.
Thanks for drawing my attention to it Carnut but I'll leave things as they stand for the moment but add a question mark after the coachbuilder in the title. 

[Carnut]

Yes, if it's as early as 1947 then it must be an RM rather than a Riley 1.5.
I just had it in my mind that this was a mid fifties Riley 1.5 but I'm obviously wrong and 72must's identification was right..

[Allan L]

We older pedants tend to refer to the RM models as 1½ and 2½ litre as we did at the time, which was just as well when BMC produced the 1.5 and 2.6 litre models which had BMC B and C series machinery and Riley badges.

[Carnut]

We older pedants tend to refer to the RM models as 1½ and 2½ litre as we did at the time, which was just as well when BMC produced the 1.5 and 2.6 litre models which had BMC B and C series machinery and Riley badges.

You beat me to it Allan!
I tried to add last night (but I couldn't get anywhere on my computer) that the RM should correctly be referred to as a 1.1/2 litre; only the later Morris Minor-based cars were described as 1.5
Fractions ruled the day in 1947, not decimals!

[Allemano]

I always though it would be a 1947 Riley RM by Bertone!

The car is not unknown and it's registered for years in Japan as far as I know.

[Allan L]

Well that does look pretty well identical.
Just as a matter of interest what registration number did you blank out in the puzzle picture?

[Carnut]

'PB' is a Surrey registration; weren't Panelcraft in Surrey?

[Allemano]

If I understand one of the Japanese sources properly there's apparently still no evidence that the body was really made by Bertone. Possibly it was rather built in an "Italian style" by some London coachbuilder.

[Iluvatar]

If I understand one of the Japanese sources properly there's apparently still no evidence that the body was really made by Bertone. Possibly it was rather built in an "Italian style" by some London coachbuilder.

The roof and rear lights design take inspiration from Bertone Giulietta Sprint, but I agree the car is most likely a british creation...
MPC

[Allemano]

...and I think this rear design would have never left the Bertone workshop...

[woodinsight]

'PB' is a Surrey registration; weren't Panelcraft in Surrey?

Panelcraft were in Putney until c.1950 then in Battersea after that as FLM Panelcraft

[woodinsight]

Well that does look pretty well identical.
Just as a matter of interest what registration number did you blank out in the puzzle picture?

The original puzzle photo with the registration number shown.....

[Carnut]

That number is actually from September 1957.
Strictly speaking it's illegal for a car to have a registration number that is newer than the vehicle but I don't know how strictly they enforced that in those days.  On the other hand, if a vehicle was changed substantially enough from the original it might have been possible for it to be allocated a new number.

Either way though that number doesn't tie in either with the 1947 date of the original car or of the date the body was said to have been built?

[woodinsight]

That number is actually from September 1957.
Strictly speaking it's illegal for a car to have a registration number that is newer than the vehicle but I don't know how strictly they enforced that in those days.  On the other hand, if a vehicle was changed substantially enough from the original it might have been possible for it to be allocated a new number.

Either way though that number doesn't tie in either with the 1947 date of the original car or of the date the body was said to have been built?

I guess it's possible the car was rebodied/rebuilt in 1957 and that my estimate of 1953 was wrong.

[Allan L]

The rule about newer number than car was only introduced some time after the change to the numbers system that identified the registration year. Prior to that if you had a personal number, when you swapped it off the car, another number for it was issued by the authority where you happened to live. I assume that's why the 1910 Star I had was LL776 which was issued in 1914 and I know it's what happened to a 1962 Daimler SP250 which was 6798 PP by the time I got it in about 1972.