Author Topic: SAC#268 : 500/750 Patriarca-Giannini by Zagato 1953 (Read 808 times)

SACO · « **on:** September 15, 2012, 05:53:56 AM »

Identify this car ,and the year for 1 point !

SACO · « **Reply #1 on:** September 22, 2012, 01:49:05 AM »

Experts ?

Iluvatar · « **Reply #2 on:** September 22, 2012, 03:58:35 AM »

Fiat-Giannini 750 Zagato

SACO · « **Reply #3 on:** September 22, 2012, 04:27:33 AM »

Not a Giannini !

Iluvatar · « **Reply #4 on:** September 22, 2012, 04:31:54 AM »

I have an identical car from Mille Miglia 1953, with Leonardi-Appignani, as a Giannini-Zagato Fiat 750 (#2219), maybe before the car was tuned by someone else...
Stanguellini?

SACO · « **Reply #5 on:** September 22, 2012, 11:47:32 AM »

The car with its badge :
It is perhaps a Giannini engine ?

Iluvatar · « **Reply #6 on:** September 22, 2012, 12:49:26 PM »

Quote from: SACO on September 22, 2012, 11:47:32 AM

The car with its badge :
It is perhaps a Giannini engine ?

I think so...

D-type · « **Reply #7 on:** September 22, 2012, 03:10:56 PM »

Quote from: Iluvatar on September 22, 2012, 04:31:54 AM

I have an identical car from Mille Miglia 1953, with Leonardi-Appignani, as a Giannini-Zagato Fiat 750 (#2219), maybe before the car was tuned by someone else...
Stanguellini?

Martin Krejci has ~2219 as a "Giannini berlinetta Zagato Fiat"

As far as I know Giannini were primarily engine developers (although they did later make complete cars) and Zagato were coachbuilders. On that basis I would suggest it's a Zagato berlinetta-style* body on a Fiat chassis (possibly modified) with a Giannini-modified Fiat engine, or Giannini-branded Fiat-based engine - which is exactly what Iluvitar is saying.

* I don't know my body styles too well, but I am fairly certain that the coupé portrayed can be described as a berlinetta.

SACO · « **Reply #8 on:** September 23, 2012, 01:46:44 AM »

Which are the reliable sources ?
I found :MM 1953 n° 114 Fiat 1100 Angelo Butti/Abele Invernizzi

Iluvatar · « **Reply #9 on:** September 23, 2012, 04:41:06 AM »

Both #114 and #2219 should be correct... so we have to find which is the car in the picture...

Iluvatar · « **Reply #10 on:** September 23, 2012, 04:48:36 AM »

I found the same #2219 in another book (Sannia's Topolino fuoriserie) where it's called a Zagato 750 GTZ Giannini... but from MIlle Miglia 1954...

D-type · « **Reply #11 on:** September 23, 2012, 12:47:35 PM »

Well, in 1953 #114 was running in the 1300cc Touring Car class and #2219 in the 750cc Sports car class. In 1954 #114 was again running in the 1300cc Touring Car class. This suggests to me that the puzzle picture is not of the car in the Mille Miglia.

(Source: Martin Krejci's site again)

SACO · « **Reply #12 on:** September 23, 2012, 05:02:33 PM »

I think that the name of the car is not just Giannini !
Which is the maker of the car ( his badge is on the hood of the car )

Locked for Iluvatar

Iluvatar · « **Reply #13 on:** September 24, 2012, 04:17:40 AM »

Giaur??

SACO · « **Reply #14 on:** September 24, 2012, 04:42:25 AM »

Not Giaur !

Iluvatar · « **Reply #15 on:** September 24, 2012, 08:18:26 AM »

Gilco?

SACO · « **Reply #16 on:** September 24, 2012, 08:42:37 AM »

Not Gilco !

SACO · « **Reply #17 on:** September 25, 2012, 05:21:50 PM »

Unlocked !

D-type · « **Reply #18 on:** September 25, 2012, 05:45:34 PM »

Zagato bodied Fiat with Giannini modified engine

SACO · « **Reply #19 on:** September 26, 2012, 01:31:17 AM »

And what builder ?

als15 · « **Reply #20 on:** September 26, 2012, 04:18:47 AM »

Even if my "Topolino fuoriserie" is not the most reliable source (I was young when I wrote it, sorry), I'm pretty sure it's a 500. Definitely too small to be based on a 1100 chassis.
About the maker, could it be Patriarca?

SACO · « **Reply #21 on:** September 26, 2012, 05:50:45 AM »

Yes it's a 500/750 Patriarca-Giannini by Zagato 1953 !
Another point for als

Thanks to Iluvatar and ImpishGrin

ImpishGrin · « **Reply #22 on:** September 26, 2012, 06:07:45 PM »

What "La Sport e i suoi artigiani 1937-1965" has to say about this car:

"Sempre nel 1953 fu realizzata per Sesto Leonardi una berlinetta, con telaio Gilco e carrozzeria di Zagato, in vista della Mille Miglia. Leonardi fu costretto al ritiro, ma l'anno successivo, affidata al principe Gaetano Starabba, fu seconda al Giro di Sicilia, continuando, poi, a correre nel Centro-Sud con Sirchia."

which, I belive, can be translated as:

"Also in 1953 a berlinetta on Gilco chassis with Zagato bodywork was made for Sesto Leonardi, to compete in Mille Miglia. Leonardi was forced to retire, but following year, co-driven by prince Gaetano Starabba, took second in Giro di Sicilia, later racing for Centro-Sud with Sirchia."

In another place in the book we learn that it had a Giannini 750 engine.

als15 · « **Reply #23 on:** September 26, 2012, 06:36:32 PM »

"Also in 1953 a berlinetta on Gilco chassis with Zagato bodywork was made for Sesto Leonardi, to compete in Mille Miglia. Leonardi was forced to retire, but following year, driven by prince Gaetano Starabba, took second in Giro di Sicilia, later racing in centre/south Italy with Sirchia."

ImpishGrin · « **Reply #24 on:** September 27, 2012, 02:38:46 AM »

Thanks

Though I thought "Centro-Sud" to mean Scuderia Centro Sud, that's why I left it untranslated.

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Author Topic: SAC#268 : 500/750 Patriarca-Giannini by Zagato 1953 (Read 808 times)