AutoPuzzles - The Internet's Museum of Rare Cars!
Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => 2012 => Topic started by: faksta on March 07, 2010, 01:54:21 PM
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This time almost nothing is known. I know only the year, month, event and country (and I'm not sure the car is from the same country where the race was held)...
Two points for this one.
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Argentina?
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No, far away from Argentina.
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Bol d'Or race in France?
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It is not France, but Europe it is.
After the country will be identified, I believe it will be not so hard to find the rest information, as I know only one source with it...
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It is a European country which one would hardly associate with racing.
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Norway?
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Even less, I'd say.
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Iceland?
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No, not so cold as both Norway and Iceland :)
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Swiss?
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No, not Switzerland, and not near (I mean not immediately near ;) )
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Albania?
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You're almost there!
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Greece?
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No!
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Cyprus?
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:disbelief:
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Bulgaria?
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Not Bulgaria, nope.
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Is it from Eastern Europe at all?
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Macedonia?
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It is from Eastern Europe (OK, if we divide it just into Eastern and Western).
Not Macedonia if we speak of today's map, but if we look back in fifties, when the picture was taken...
The answer is quite obvious now, I hope, so I'll lock this after ImpishGrin until his next reply.
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OK, since there is no reply from ImpishGrin yet, tomorrow the puzzle reopens for all again, unless he comes with an answer.
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Open to all.
A point for a country, then I uncover all the rest information I have and maybe we'll be able to identify the car together...
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Yugoslavia..
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Of course :) Point added.
So, all I know is that it was an event in Yugoslavia (on today's Slovenia territory) - a Bled-Tolmin-Vrsic-Bled race in September, 1955. I believe it was a mountain race. If I'm not mistaken, the wheels may be Fiat Topolino ones, but I haven't yet found anything looking exactly like this among the etceterini. I know there was at least one Yugoslav special in fifties (it's not that, though), so this might have been also built there, or, on the opposite, imported from somewhere. After all, it could be simply a foreign (say, Italian) crew on the Italian car, maybe the numberplates could help, but I'm no good in them... Two points for the identification of this car.
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I looked at period plates of most of the european countries, and Norway's seemed the only ones to look like this, commencing with like W-. That's why I guessed Norway. But that tells us nothing on the car.
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I couldn't find a similar plate yet. It looks like H-7949 to me.
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Yoegoslavië
Ah!, I am little slow I see, missed the second page :-[
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could be croatian plates, H is for hrvatska, Croatia. In those time Yougoslav republics had first letter on plates, not towns.
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Here are the plates for Norway and Yugoslavia. Make your choice.
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I have placed it at an automotive license plates forum (yes, such thing exists...), so let's wait now :)
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I believe that Croatia is more probable...
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Well, Croatia sounds very likely. First, the first letter, as mtbo has told us, second - on numberplates forum they suppose these are old Yugoslav plates.
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...and: isn't it a little unlikely that a Norwegian racing team started on an obscure Yugoslavian race event?
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Well, it is :)
BTW, the numbeprlate is H-7943, not H-7949.
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Looks like the Chuck Tatum special?
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I honestly doubt that - he would hardly go to race in Yugoslavia.
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I wouldn't expect a German car to find its way to Yugoslavia in 1955 so I think it must be one of the Fiat-based etceterini.
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I am now in touch with the author of the article, who published this picture on-line. He's kinda busy, but promised to get back to me with more details on this and other Slovenian/Yugoslavian specials (this is for you faksta :))
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Oh, now that's a real New Year present! :hail:
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:bump:
Any movement on this?
Faksta, could you possibly post a blow-up of the number plate? It might help bottom this out.
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Here's the photo at full size. Enlarging the plate further doesn't help much.
As Faksta said earlier, it's fairly clear that the number is H-7943.
I know it's unlikely, but I was wondering if those could be Ford wheels on the back?
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Thanks, Tom for posting a bigger picture.
Sadly, nothing new on this yet. Probably there's nothing to be found in the web, local books or magazines should contain something, but I have none of them. Guess motorsport history in Yugoslavia may bring some interesting cars and people to light, but seems that's not to be done too soon.
Ford Ten wheels look quite similar, but I honestly don't know for sure... Might be those or Topolino ones.
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I think the Topolino normally had disc wheels suggesting that a Ford Ten is a more likely source. Alternatively, what vehicles might the Wermacht have left behind in Yugoslavia?
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We have got in touch with the author of the original article and he promised further details, but nothing happened so far. I'll follow this up in the next few days
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Not necessarily Wehrmacht related, as there was even a Jaguar based special in Yugoslavia (mentioned and pictured in the same article).
Another thing that makes me interested is a starting number. #74 is quite a lot for a country I (previously) thought had no motorsport back then. Even if all the other cars were production ones, the scales are quite bigger than I could imagine (if only the numbers were assigned in some order).
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Yugoslavia?
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I don't know much about East Europe race but I found this article in Slovenian (translated by Google) with this photos
"Race after WWII
After the Second World War has been with us, despite the inclement conditions in the field of automobile and motorcycle races quite lively.
Then it had a strong lack of vehicles, lack of it was the supply of spare parts and fuel. However, the automobile association in 1945 have already held two competitions next year, it was here already eighteen races. Similarly, until the end of forty years. Then were the most frequent assessment of driving and road-speed racing, they have a significant effect on the public staged in towns and mountain racing. The most popular sporting event in 1947, for example, the evaluation was driving Bled-Ljubljana-Maribor-Zagreb, by the 17th and 18 Slovenian held a Board of motoring and motorcycling.
In the early fifties, the automobile sport in Slovenia has been greatly eroded, it is heavily short of fuel, old vehicles are worn out, but it was not new. In 1949 the whole of Slovenia said to buy just one bike Gilera 500, which of course does not satisfy the needs of riders. Greatly decreased the number of automobile and motorcycle sports, which they had in purchasing vehicles, often find themselves. AMD Kamnik member Karl Licen at an international event in Ljubljana in 1951 appeared as the car that you made it yourself (title photo) and it won several races. He is apparently used jaguarjevo chassis, engine and mechanics is assembled from a variety of forged parts.
Bad conditions at work riders are most obviously reflected in the fact that despite the international racing knowledge and will not be able to measure with foreign competitors with modern vehicles. Automotive and motorsports events in Slovenia have been so up until 1955 most similar meeting of classic cars.
Matija Janežič
Photo: Max Zadnik: 30 years of Slovenian auto moto organizations; AMZS 1979
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That's the source in fact.
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The Kingdom of Yugoslavia (1929-1944)?
Or maybe Tito´s Yugoslavia 1945-
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From Oguerrerob's source, it would obviously be Tito's Yugoslavia, right?
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It's surely a postwar picture.
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:bump:
Has anybody found anything more on this one
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Not yet, I am trying to get hold of the book.
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Who knows this racing car?
SOLVED by myself... : )
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This is Zvonimir Kren´s Fiat 1100 at the 1955 yugoslavian alpine contest.
It´s been listed as a 1100ccm Fiat Special then.
To be honest, Faksta did send me a PM, that one of my latest rookie puzzle must be the same car:
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=21137.0
But I do know who drove it and what it is... ;D
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May someone please merge it with my current rookie puzzle (now moved to the pro section):
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=21137.0
Thank you
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This is actually an unsolved pro puzzle already:
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=11517.0
May one admin please merge it or delete it completly?
I´ll move it to the pro section now.
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2 points, as promised :) Finally the car is found! Now the question is, was it built in Yugoslavia or Italy? It looks like a couple of etceterini I've seen, but will need to check.
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I like the 'Solved by myself' part :lmao:
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It looks quite battered and I do not think that there were too many motorsport events in YU in that days to race it often and to wear it out too much .
So I think it is a lower quality yugoslavian home-made one-off.
The quality of the body doesn´t look too good, really...
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Yep, but at the same time not all of Italian cars were pieces of art :)
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Merged
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Typo in subject. The car looks somewhat lean, as opposed to the "Fat" described in the subject. ;D
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Fixed
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Typo in subject. The car looks somewhat lean, as opposed to the "Fat" described in the subject. ;D
Woops :D
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2 points, as promised :) Finally the car is found! Now the question is, was it built in Yugoslavia or Italy? It looks like a couple of etceterini I've seen, but will need to check.
It was built in the Croatian part of Yugoslavia
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watching these interesting and romantic pictures I've got the idea that this 1100 may be a 508 sport derived; rear wheels are Fergat, like Balilla sport; the tail shape looks like Coppa d'oro; the position of passenger's left arm, around driver's back, is exactly the same that 508S'users were forced to assume because of the fact that passenger seat was positioned reader than driver's one. Not strange it's called 1100, because the 508s had introduced the 1089cc engine in MM. I have no proves, just my ideas.
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I have no proves, just my ideas.
This is quite likely.
The "1100" stand only for the motor displacement capacity in my eyes and it is most likely based on a prewar car.
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Some more photos:
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Puzzle pic restored