Author Topic: Ecn-024 Solved: 1907 Christie's V4 Racer (Read 2776 times)

Ecnelis · « **on:** December 09, 2010, 01:30:02 PM »

Name the car, the builder and the year for 1 point, please.

alvis1 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 17, 2011, 06:16:16 PM »

The name : Christie (n°5), the builder John Walter Christie and the year 1907.

Ecnelis · « **Reply #2 on:** January 17, 2011, 06:21:10 PM »

Builder - correct. The name and the year - wrong. Locked for you.

alvis1 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 20, 2011, 04:54:32 PM »

You think "Big Bear"

Ecnelis · « **Reply #4 on:** January 20, 2011, 05:38:45 PM »

Yes, that's the name. Year left, still locked for you.

alvis1 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 20, 2011, 06:32:01 PM »

This is not a real name but a nickname

J.W. Christie has built several cars, this one above was built for "le Grand Prix de l'A.C.F. in 1907.
If you think 1906, this is not the same car. (cylinders are tilted forward)

:::: link deleted! ::::

:::: link deleted! ::::

Allemano · « **Reply #6 on:** January 21, 2011, 01:05:40 AM »

Quote from: alvis1 on January 20, 2011, 06:32:01 PM

This is not a real name but a nickname
J.W. Christie has built several cars, this one above was built for "le Grand Prix de l'A.C.F. in 1907.
If you think 1906, this is not the same car. (cylinders are tilted forward)

::::link deleted::::

::::link deleted::::

alvis1: according to our rules it's not allowed to provide links to other sources.
please read this: http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=6857.0

This is the first warning.

alvis1 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 21, 2011, 06:10:29 PM »

Quote from: Allemano on January 21, 2011, 01:05:40 AM

Quote from: alvis1 on January 20, 2011, 06:32:01 PM
This is not a real name but a nickname
J.W. Christie has built several cars, this one above was built for "le Grand Prix de l'A.C.F. in 1907.
If you think 1906, this is not the same car. (cylinders are tilted forward)

::::link deleted::::

::::link deleted::::

alvis1: according to our rules it's not allowed to provide links to other sources.
please read this: http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=6857.0

This is the first warning.

Sorry

Ecnelis · « **Reply #8 on:** January 22, 2011, 01:27:55 PM »

So... There's some serious confusion with this puzzle. I think it will be fair to award alvis1 a point and move it level up to clearance with some solid proof... and another point for doing that.

What's the story?

My source say's it's "Big Bear" by Walter Christie from the year of 190X, engine is also mentioned, but then...

Chevrolet pages claims "Big Bear" was car of 1906 with Darracq V8 (different engine than puzzle's car), but no picture.

Experts?

alvis1 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 22, 2011, 06:40:22 PM »

Louis Chevrolet drove both cars :
the Christie (but the previous, not this one) I have a picture
and the Darracq V8

But I think the Christie has never had an Darracq V8 engine !

D-type · « **Reply #10 on:** January 22, 2011, 06:51:02 PM »

This is not the first Christie, which I think was 1905, as that had a scuttle mounted radiator and a towing eye on the front.

It's not the last Christie racer, the Barney Oldfield car as the cylinders wouldn't fit under its bonnet.

Wendax · « **Reply #11 on:** February 06, 2011, 12:36:41 PM »

By chance, I found some pictures supposed to show the 1907 Christie 20-litre V-4:

Ecnelis · « **Reply #12 on:** February 11, 2011, 04:00:46 PM »

So it looks like alvis1's first answer migt be the very correct one?

V4 is of course correct engine.

What do pros think? Case closed?

Allan L · « **Reply #13 on:** February 11, 2011, 04:39:55 PM »

Well the Wendax posting shows the 1907 Christie as raced in the Grand Prix at Dieppe. The original puzzle looks to me like an earlier one, but I've nothing to compare it to.
J. Walter Christie is best known for developing the Christie suspension system used in a number of World War II-era tank designs.

SeaLion · « **Reply #14 on:** February 12, 2011, 02:32:05 AM »

Here are two pictures of Chistie's earlier car, the first (painting) from the 1905 race where Christie's front wheel drive car (#11) crashed into Mr. Lancia driving a Fiat. Lancia probably copied the sliding pillar front suspension from the Christie car, using it on the Lancia Lamda in 1906.

The second picture is from a race at Hairpin Turn in 1906. This looks like the same car as in 1905, but different from the puzzle car.

In 1907 Christie became the first US-American to compete in the French Grand Prix: the V4 engine of 19,891 cc that powered his vehicle was the largest ever used in a Grand Prix race, but the car retired after four laps with "engine trouble". This is possible the puzzle car?

D-type · « **Reply #15 on:** February 12, 2011, 04:35:39 AM »

Text deleted - I accidentally posted it while part written

the following post has the full text

D-type · « **Reply #16 on:** February 12, 2011, 04:42:20 AM »

The car in the 2nd picture has a scuttle radiator confirming that it's the 1905 car and not the puzzle car.

So, is the puzzle car
(a) The 1906 car, which Ecnelis's source erroneously identified as Louis Chevrolet's "Big Bear"?
(b) The 1907 Grand Prix car?
(c) A later car - this is unlikely as a picture I have of Barney Oldfield's car has a lower bonnet line that wouldn't fit over this engine?

D-type · « **Reply #17 on:** May 15, 2011, 09:25:17 AM »

Just wondering if anybody has unearthed anything more.

Oguerrerob · « **Reply #18 on:** May 16, 2011, 11:21:29 PM »

I think this is the same car driven by Oldfield. And this stamp

Wendax · « **Reply #19 on:** May 29, 2011, 01:18:11 PM »

The puzzle picture is printed in this month's "Oldtimer Markt" magazine with the caption (translated):
"The 19-litre-V4, driven by John Walter Christie at the French Grand Prix 1907, put 140 HP to the front axle."
This complies with alvis1's answer.

Ecnelis · « **Reply #20 on:** June 23, 2011, 07:24:55 PM »

Got another pic, marked as Christie's "Big Bear" with 130 hp V4 and FWD.

D-type · « **Reply #21 on:** June 25, 2011, 02:48:36 PM »

Quote from: Ecnelis on June 23, 2011, 07:24:55 PM

Got another pic, marked as Christie's "Big Bear" with 130 hp V4 and FWD.

In his "History of Motor Racing Bill Boddy captions this picture as

Quote

Walter Christie of the United states driving one of his own cars which featured front-wheel drive and twin front wheels. the radiator on this car is scuttle mounted, while on subsequent models it was positioned behind the driver

I think Oguerrerob's picture shows the same car.

In his book, Boddy includes a picture of Oldfield's car in 1910. It bears the legend "my only life insurance is my Firestone tires". This car has a lower bonnet (hood) line that couldn't accommodate any of these engines but would require the engine to incline further back. So I don't think any of the cars pictured so far are the Barney Oldfield one - but I could be wrong.

But I think the Monaco stamp could be the puzzle car. Look at the cover plates on the "gearbox?" and the angle of the cylinders. That would make it the 1907 GP car.

Oguerrerob · « **Reply #22 on:** July 01, 2011, 10:43:28 PM »

Another pictures

Wendax · « **Reply #23 on:** August 01, 2011, 07:10:31 AM »

The 1906 car with forward tilted cylinders

Paul Jaray · « **Reply #24 on:** October 05, 2011, 05:17:34 PM »

and another one:
(is it solved?)

News:

Author Topic: Ecn-024 Solved: 1907 Christie's V4 Racer (Read 2776 times)