Solved - NEH 1980: VEF, Latvia - 1934

[Carnut]

What's this, from when and where - for 1 point?:

ANYONE FOUND GIVING ANSWERS GLEANED BY USING GOOGLE SEARCH BY IMAGE MAY BE BANNED FOR AN INDETERMINATE PERIOD!

[Otto Puzzell]

LSD - the early years

[Zerk]

An advertising body on a 1932 Ford?

[Carnut]

An advertising body on a 1932 Ford?

Not that; not a Ford!

[Carnut]

Let's assault the Experts' eyes...

[D-type]

Austin Seven ?

[Carnut]

Austin Seven ?

No!

[Manuel]

I am going to stick my neck out here and agree with Zerk.
The only thing I will add is that it is a UK model with variations and differences not seen in the USA.
The model probably lasted more than one year in the UK as well.

Manuel in Oz

[Carnut]

Right, I've looked into this in view of your comments.
It would seem this picture is in fact a photoshop job..  There is writing along the side in the original picture (in a language I would say very few on this website can understand), and pretty convincing it is, but I'm sure this car never existed as it is named in my source.

So, what I will do is give the point to zerk if he can show me a picture of the original car from which the photoshop was done, proving it's a 1932 Ford used for advertising, but I will also give a point to anyone who can find the original picture of my puzzle car (it should take some finding, I can tell you!)

[Carnut]

The point is still available for Zerk if he can show me a '32 Ford with this bodywork but now there's a chance for the Pro's to earn a point as well if they can tell me what this vehicle is actually purporting to be!

[Tom_I]

I'm sure I've come across this before, but I'm a bit hazy about the details. I think I have a picture of it on my main desktop pc. I'll check it out in due course, but don't hold your breath!













You weren't going to, were you?

[Carnut]

Well, I don't see the queues of puzzlers waiting to answer this one, so take your time!

[Tom_I]

Well, here it is. First of all the unretouched photo. The signwriting on the side is the full name of the VEF electrical factory in Riga, Latvia. This was a huge organisation, making a wide range of products. I first came across it when I became interested in old cameras, and bought a Minox subminiature film camera. The earliest examples of these were made by VEF in Riga, though production moved to Germany after WW2.



It has been suggested that the picture is a Photoshop job. At first I was convinced that it was a fake, as there appears to be a spelling mistake in the signwriting. The correct spelling of the full name in Latvian is "Valsts Elektrotehniskā Fabrika", but on the vehicle there is an extra 'c' in "Elektrotechniska". But having done a bit more research, I have had to change my opinion on this, as it seems that the factory used this spelling themselves in foreign-language correspondence and documentation. Below, taken from the book "Spycamera – The Minox Story" is a document in German granting a power of attorney to the director of AEG during the German occupation of Latvia. On the letterhead and in the typed text, the name is consistently spelled with the added 'c'. Below that is the cover of an instruction manual in English, and again the name is spelled as in the puzzle picture.





So I don't think it can be assumed that the photo is a fake on the basis of the spelling.

I have had no luck in finding a picture of a 1932 Ford which could have been used as the basis for this photo, so as a last resort I tried to see if I could identify where the photo was taken, and I think I have. The colour photo is the back of a building which houses some technology-based companies. It is two buildings along from the main VEF offices. I was in Riga for a few days in 2004, and went along this road in a bus. There was a lot of building work going on, with places being redeveloped as offices and apartments.



I have inset part of the puzzle picture, and looking at the building on the left in the background, although the viewpoint is different it matches with the colour photo. There is a tower on the corner of the building with two vertical oblong windows, then to the left a row of six windows at a lower level, with a prominent ledge underneath. Then there are another two windows on a part that looks a different shade, but which on the colour shot can be seen to be jutting out slightly. Then there is another small "tower" with a raised roofline, two long vertical windows set at a lower level, and a break in the ledge, and then another row of six windows above a ledge. Then to the right is another building with a dark-coloured mansard roof, which can also be seen at the right hand edge of the colour shot.

So whether or not the car is a fake, I am now convinced that the photo (or at least the background) was taken in the VEF factory complex in Riga.

I don't think the van can be a VEF product, as it is clearly a Ford, but maybe it was used by the factory as a delivery van, or something similar. Fords were made under licence in Latvia, but only after WW2, and were sold under the name Vairog, and I don't think VEF had any involvement in it.

So, as those annoying TV documentaries on ghosts and the supernatural say, is it real or is it a fake? You decide...

[Carnut]

That's some impressive sleuthing, Tom!

The thing is, the whole site from which the picture was taken is a very elaborate war game into which its writer has put a huge amount of effort.  All the military equipment pictured is in fact real but has been given different names with fictitious regiments etc, so it's possible that this is also true of this car (which is what I originally thought).  Whether it really had anything to do with VEF or not I haven't been able to ascertain at all!

I'll give you your point but will leave it for a day or two before moving this to Solved in case someone (local perhaps!) can shed any light on the truth!

Very well done anyway.

[RayTheRat]

Impressive hardly begins to cover the subject!  Tom's write-up reads like one of the spy novels in which one would find a Minox being used.  As the Gen X youth used to say, "toadly ossum!"

Btw...I always wanted a Minox.  Now I have a little Panasonic I call my "spy camera."  

RtR

[Allemano]

Now I have a little Panasonic I call my "spy camera."

I used mine exactly like that at our local library just today...  


And Tom should find us the real murderer of JFK, maybe...

[Wendax]

Btw...I always wanted a Minox.

I have one (amongst my 300 cameras). 

[RayTheRat]

Btw...I always wanted a Minox.

I have one (amongst my 300 cameras). 

That's a rather impressive number!

RtR

[pguillem]

The VEF appears as a Latvian automobile on some sites.
But long before Photoshop was invented, this VEF seems a little bit more unfortunate.

[Manuel]

The car in the last pic looks like it is based on a 1936 Ford.

Manuel in Oz

[Carnut]

Thanks.
That is of course the same picture as the puzzle pic, taken from a spoof website.
But the question is: is it a real car 'borrowed' by the spoof site, or was it created by the spoof site but has now been 'borrowed' by others and appears as a real car?
Any Latvian car historians out there?!

[Tom_I]

I think the crashed car shown above is this one. Unfortunately I can't find any details about it, except that the bodywork is supposed to have been designed by Karlis Irbitis. He was a Latvian aircraft designer who produced several designs for VEF (who also made aircraft, among their many other products). With a bit of imagination you could think that the same hand might have been at work on the puzzle vehicle.

I don't know what the basis of the car below is, but if it looks Ford-like, it could well be a Vairog. These were Fords built under licence in Latvia in the late 1930s, a couple of models being based on Ford V8s.

EDIT: Now I've looked a bit more, I'm pretty sure the base is a 1936 Ford V8, as Manuel said earlier, in which case it's not a Vairog, as their V8s were based on the 1939 Ford equivalent.

Incidentally, the caption on the photo in the earlier post just says "VEF car after accident. Riga. 1941".

I have also seen mention on a couple of sites that between about 1928 and 1932 VEF produced a "small economical car", as mentioned in the picture above, but I have not been able to find out anything about it at all. I don't think it's the puzzle car, though.

[Manuel]

Surely the 2 pics are of the same car?
They both have the same styling, wide 5 wheels and the same join in the middle of the running boards?
Or maybe the co. had a fleet of them?

Manuel in Oz

[Carnut]

Thanks for all the information guys and esp. Pal.
So this was a real car after all; Tom I already has 1 point for coming up with the original photo and that has proved to be the right answer in the end, so I'm moving this one to Solved.

[RayTheRat]

The VEF appears as a Latvian automobile on some sites.
But long before Photoshop was invented, this VEF seems a little bit more unfortunate.

Just one problem.  The grill shell, hood and cowl are all post 1931.  I'd say that it's a 1932, especially since the V8 has been mentioned.  '32 was the first year for that motor, '53 was the last year for the flathead, being replaced by the "Y-block."

The second example was definitely based on a 1936 Ford design.