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Author Topic: Q729 - solved - Tianjin Auto Assembly Works 'People's car'  (Read 807 times)

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Offline Quiller

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Q729 - solved - Tianjin Auto Assembly Works 'People's car'
« on: March 05, 2011, 09:15:31 AM »

What's the make and model name of this car?
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Offline DeAutogids

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Re: Q729
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2011, 05:44:09 AM »
I do. But I am cannot answer here :)
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Offline Quiller

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Re: Q729
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2011, 07:30:37 AM »
Duly moved...
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Offline DeAutogids

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Re: Q729
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2011, 07:50:13 AM »
It's a Chinese car based on a Dodge and I understand the car is made by the Tianjin Auto Assembly Works
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Offline tonyola

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Re: Q729
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2011, 08:59:20 AM »
It's the 1951 Tianjin 5141, and it's said to be the first car built in the People's Republic of China.
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Offline DeAutogids

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Re: Q729
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2011, 02:28:35 PM »
Quote from: tonyola on March 30, 2011, 08:59:20 AM
It's the 1951 Tianjin 5141, and it's said to be the first car built in the People's Republic of China.
It is not called 5141. The engine is (1951 4-cylinder 1st model).

The car is based on a 1932 Dodge chassis and some sources mention a production of 4 units. Apparently, the car was known as "the people's car". As for the first car, Tianjin also assembled some Jeeps and built a bus.
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Offline tonyola

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Re: Q729
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2011, 02:47:33 PM »
Tianjin TJ 210
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Offline Quiller

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Re: Q729
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2011, 02:32:19 PM »
De Autogids, you are right about the maker being Tianjin. I must admit the article from which this pic was taken did call it the Tianjin 5141 of 1951...

I believe the TJ 210 mentioned by tonyola dates from 1964 and used the GAZ 69 platform, so this isn't that.
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Offline DeAutogids

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Re: Q729
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2011, 03:48:13 PM »
My source is Erik van Ingen-Shengau of the world famous China Motor Vehicle Documentation Centre.

The scans below are copyright of that Centre!
I have bought his book on the subject.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 04:01:00 PM by DeAutogids »
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Offline Quiller

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Re: Q729 - solved - Tianjin Auto Assembly Works 'People's car'
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2011, 02:38:55 PM »
Very interesting. The point is yours!
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Offline tonyola

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Re: Q729
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2011, 08:05:53 PM »
Quote from: Quiller on March 31, 2011, 02:32:19 PM
De Autogids, you are right about the maker being Tianjin. I must admit the article from which this pic was taken did call it the Tianjin 5141 of 1951...

I believe the TJ 210 mentioned by tonyola dates from 1964 and used the GAZ 69 platform, so this isn't that.

I first identified this car as the Tianjin 5141 plus I supplied the proper year.
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Offline Quiller

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Re: Q729
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2011, 07:43:40 AM »
Quote from: tonyola on April 01, 2011, 08:05:53 PM
Quote from: Quiller on March 31, 2011, 02:32:19 PM
De Autogids, you are right about the maker being Tianjin. I must admit the article from which this pic was taken did call it the Tianjin 5141 of 1951...

I believe the TJ 210 mentioned by tonyola dates from 1964 and used the GAZ 69 platform, so this isn't that.

I first identified this car as the Tianjin 5141 plus I supplied the proper year.

Thanks for your response, tonyola - and thanks for supplying the name/designation that I had.

However the convention that I've been following for awarding points is that the person who first names the car deserves the point. If any clarification is needed for the point, I would normally lock the puzzle for the first person who answers in the right 'ball park'. It can be tricky when someone gives a more detailed answer after the original response, and my inclination is to be generous and award more than one point. In this case, I was asking for make and model name (not year), and De Autogids's detailed answer seems to indicate that the model name 5141 may be erroneous. Is it unfair for me to award the point to De Autogids?
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Offline tonyola

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Re: Q729
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2011, 08:39:41 AM »
Quote from: Quiller on April 02, 2011, 07:43:40 AM
Quote from: tonyola on April 01, 2011, 08:05:53 PM
Quote from: Quiller on March 31, 2011, 02:32:19 PM
De Autogids, you are right about the maker being Tianjin. I must admit the article from which this pic was taken did call it the Tianjin 5141 of 1951...

I believe the TJ 210 mentioned by tonyola dates from 1964 and used the GAZ 69 platform, so this isn't that.

I first identified this car as the Tianjin 5141 plus I supplied the proper year.

Thanks for your response, tonyola - and thanks for supplying the name/designation that I had.

However the convention that I've been following for awarding points is that the person who first names the car deserves the point. If any clarification is needed for the point, I would normally lock the puzzle for the first person who answers in the right 'ball park'. It can be tricky when someone gives a more detailed answer after the original response, and my inclination is to be generous and award more than one point. In this case, I was asking for make and model name (not year), and De Autogids's detailed answer seems to indicate that the model name 5141 may be erroneous. Is it unfair for me to award the point to De Autogids?

No, I don't dispute his point, but we seem to have conflicting sources here. You yourself said that in an article the car was identified as a 1951 Tianjin 5141. We are also taking about the first couple of years of the PRC where hard information can be very sketchy. We don't even have a decent photo of the car but we do have a "sometimes" name of "The People's Car". Who used that name? Or maybe it's the Tianjin? It might depend on who you asked.
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Offline DeAutogids

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Re: Q729
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2011, 02:13:41 AM »
Quote from: tonyola on April 02, 2011, 08:39:41 AM
Quote from: Quiller on April 02, 2011, 07:43:40 AM
Quote from: tonyola on April 01, 2011, 08:05:53 PM
Quote from: Quiller on March 31, 2011, 02:32:19 PM
De Autogids, you are right about the maker being Tianjin. I must admit the article from which this pic was taken did call it the Tianjin 5141 of 1951...

I believe the TJ 210 mentioned by tonyola dates from 1964 and used the GAZ 69 platform, so this isn't that.

I first identified this car as the Tianjin 5141 plus I supplied the proper year.

Thanks for your response, tonyola - and thanks for supplying the name/designation that I had.

However the convention that I've been following for awarding points is that the person who first names the car deserves the point. If any clarification is needed for the point, I would normally lock the puzzle for the first person who answers in the right 'ball park'. It can be tricky when someone gives a more detailed answer after the original response, and my inclination is to be generous and award more than one point. In this case, I was asking for make and model name (not year), and De Autogids's detailed answer seems to indicate that the model name 5141 may be erroneous. Is it unfair for me to award the point to De Autogids?

No, I don't dispute his point, but we seem to have conflicting sources here. You yourself said that in an article the car was identified as a 1951 Tianjin 5141. We are also taking about the first couple of years of the PRC where hard information can be very sketchy. We don't even have a decent photo of the car but we do have a "sometimes" name of "The People's Car". Who used that name? Or maybe it's the Tianjin? It might depend on who you asked.
I can't commenton the awarding of the point, as this is up to the poster of the puzzle. However,the article I scanned is from a well-respected source on the subject. If anyone knows in the Western World, I guess it is Erik van Ingen-Schengau.
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Offline Carnut

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Re: Q729 - solved - Tianjin Auto Assembly Works 'People's car'
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2011, 07:56:00 AM »
The way I read the article it just seems to say the engine is called the 5141; it doesn't quote that as a model name..
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Offline DeAutogids

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Re: Q729 - solved - Tianjin Auto Assembly Works 'People's car'
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2011, 08:03:57 AM »
Quote from: Carnut on April 04, 2011, 07:56:00 AM
The way I read the article it just seems to say the engine is called the 5141; it doesn't quote that as a model name..
I think he means a different online article
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