Author Topic: Solved - NEH 632: PBS Formula Libre Coupe 1965  (Read 1725 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40947
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Solved - NEH 632: PBS Formula Libre Coupe 1965
« on: August 09, 2010, 09:46:43 AM »
Identify this car for 1 point:
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40947
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 632
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2010, 05:26:45 AM »
Time for a move I think..
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline woodinsight

  • Professional
  • *
  • Posts: 13671
  • Country: fr
  • Puzzle Points 557
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 632
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2010, 05:35:39 AM »
PBS Coupe 1965

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40947
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 632
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2010, 08:26:16 AM »
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline woodinsight

  • Professional
  • *
  • Posts: 13671
  • Country: fr
  • Puzzle Points 557
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 632
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2010, 09:13:17 AM »
My source (HPs book) definitely shows this as a PBS coupe.
Perhaps further explanation is in order -
Paul & Bob Swensen (PBS) of PBS Engineering, Garden Grove CA built two space-framed mid-engined chassis using Fiat 850 engines.
The fibreglass coupe body was designed by Clark Adams and built by LaDawri, the kit car builder.
LaDawri marketed the body separately as the Formula Libre.
If you require proof I can provide a scan of the article.

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40947
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 632
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2010, 11:20:22 AM »
OK, LaDawri Formula Libre was the name I was looking for so you've obviously got the car, although it does have another name as well ("La Dawri ******** Formula Libre") before I award that point!

If you can provide proof that it's a PBS Coupe then I'll accept that and change the name, but I've never heard of it and Googling for it produced no results, hence my "No" reply to your post!

Locked for your reply.
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40947
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 632
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2010, 10:09:42 AM »
On further investigation it seems woodinsight was correct so I have awarded him the point.
I had the car as a LaDawri Vendetta Formula Libre, but I can find no confirmation anywhere that that is correct, although LaDawri were supposed to build the same car as one of their models (perhaps some expert can confirm if Vendetta was to be its name?).

What woodinsight has sent me is proof that the pictured car is in fact a PBS Formula Libre Coupe, so it would seem that I have been the victim of another of those duff websites, and the pictured car is not the LaDawri; indeed it's not even certain they ever actually built any...!
« Last Edit: August 22, 2010, 10:12:55 AM by Carnut »
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline drum365

  • *
  • Posts: 22
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 2
  • AutoPuzzles
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: Solved - NEH 632: PBS Formula Libre Coupe 1965
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2011, 08:22:06 PM »
I realize that this is an old thread, but I came across it while doing some research. I happen to have some familiarity with this car, having seen it raced at Sears Point. I was working in the pits that day on another car and went over and talked with the driver and crew. The car left a huge impression on me - not only astonishingly fast, but really beautiful, to boot. I am still kind of obsessed with it!

The car is a PBS Mk-2. It started out in H-modified, which became HSR (H Sports Racing) and then DSR (D Sports Racing) during an era of tumultuous change in SCCA classes and rules. It was also known as the PBS GT-2, which I think is the name they were using when I saw the car. It had a highly modified Fiat 850 engine, producing about 85-90 bhp, and, according to page 109 of "Vintage Road Racing Cars, 1950-1959" by Harold Pace,* it weighed about 740 pounds. (Yikes!) Two things to note in the photo: (1) it's in front of all the other cars and (2) that "huge" car behind it is a Triumph Spitfire. Man, this thing was TINY! And absolutely gorgeous. The picture just doesn't do the car justice. (Oh, and did I mention, it had gullwing doors!)

"PBS" stood for the owners, Paul and Bob Swenson. Bob died two years ago at the age of 81 in a dune buggy accident. PBS Engineering is still in business, making competition and off-road parts.

I'm not sure what article woodinsight sent to the questioner, but here's a little more info for anyone else who might be interested:

The body is indeed a LaDawri Formula Libre and was designed by Clark Adams. (I'm still not clear whether Adams was working for LaDawri or PBS at the time.) Two bodies were built for PBS. One of the cars was raced by Bob Swenson for many years, including the 1968 AARC, where it dnf'ed due to a broken suspension piece. It was sold and heavily modified. When PBS was later asked to restore it, it had been so heavily modified that they had to put a different body on it. The other car was raced and then sold to a collector in Japan and is still in recognizable condition. (I wish I knew where!)

There is an article on LaDawri at Wikipedia.* I quote: "in 1965, the last body introduced was the Formula Libre, with front or mid-engined layout. LaDawri offered to adapt it to take any running gear that the customer chose. At least two bodies were laid up for PBS racing. One of the cars is rumored to have been shipped to Japan. After the company closed, Les used the Formula Libre molds to build one prototype called the Vendetta. He built the car on a VW chassis for production in Canada. On a trip back from Canada the car was destroyed and Les was injured when a semi-truck driver fell asleep at the wheel and ran over the towed car." Apparently, the company was already struggling financially, and went out of business shortly thereafter.

Also, FWIW, from the crash photos,* the Vendetta appears to have had headlights. I'm not sure about the gullwing doors or even if it was still a coupe.

So yes, the car here is a PBS Mk-2/GT-2 DSR/HSR/H-modified with a LaDawri Formula Libre body that became the basis for the Vendetta prototype. From all anyone can seem to recall, the only two bodies FL bodies were made for PBS, and the only Vendetta body was destroyed in the crash. Such a shame - it was a really beautiful car!

* Links:
<<< link removed >>>

« Last Edit: January 08, 2011, 02:38:35 AM by Otto Puzzell »

Offline woodinsight

  • Professional
  • *
  • Posts: 13671
  • Country: fr
  • Puzzle Points 557
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: Solved - NEH 632: PBS Formula Libre Coupe 1965
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2011, 02:26:13 AM »
Thanks for providing the extra information - very interesting read.

By the way, I was quoting from the article in the Harold Pace VARRC book.

I wonder how many PBS engines were fitted to sports racers in the USA.

I have a photo of a PBS-engined Miller racing roadster that is located in Northern Europe but I have very little information on it.

The PBS Mk-2 coupe looks about the same size as my Diva and probably as difficult to get into!

Offline Otto Puzzell

  • Founder and
  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 31556
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 444
  • Open field, with a window.
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • AutoPuzzles
Re: Solved - NEH 632: PBS Formula Libre Coupe 1965
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2011, 02:40:57 AM »
drum365: Welcome to AutoPuzzles!

Before diving in to deeply into the AutoPuzzles waters, I suggest a thorough reading of the rules at the top of the Rookie, Expert and Pro puzzle section.

http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=6857.0

There is a rule against posting links to outside sites in the puzzle threads included in each of the puzzle sections. This is your first warning on this rule violation.

I've deleted the links from your post. We hope to see you move though the ranks to become a Pro puzzler, in time.  :)
You wanna be the man, you gotta Name That Car!

Offline drum365

  • *
  • Posts: 22
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 2
  • AutoPuzzles
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: Solved - NEH 632: PBS Formula Libre Coupe 1965
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2011, 09:20:48 AM »
Thanks, Otto. I didn't realize there was a rule against links. You said "...in the puzzle threads." Could I post those links somewhere else, for instance in the "Racing" section of the forum?

As I'm sure you can tell, I'm kind of passionate about the PBS Mk-2. There's a very little information on the Web, and it's spread all over. I was hoping to put it all in one place in case anyone else ever goes looking for it.

Thanks again,

drum365 (Chip)

Offline Otto Puzzell

  • Founder and
  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 31556
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 444
  • Open field, with a window.
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • AutoPuzzles
Re: Solved - NEH 632: PBS Formula Libre Coupe 1965
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2011, 09:30:55 AM »
Could I post those links somewhere else, for instance in the "Racing" section of the forum?

As I'm sure you can tell, I'm kind of passionate about the PBS Mk-2. There's a very little information on the Web, and it's spread all over. I was hoping to put it all in one place in case anyone else ever goes looking for it.

Thanks again,

drum365 (Chip)

Absolutely!
You wanna be the man, you gotta Name That Car!