Topic: Whaddyacallit #165 - Solved! Ghia B-junior Coupé

[Ray B.]

Ever seen this ?

If you did, please respond below and let us know the make and model designation of the car posted here.
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Also, please be sure to check out our other puzzles, and, please post a puzzle of your own if you'd like - the more, the merrier.
Thanks!

[Allemano]

It's a Lancia Aurelia B52 Ghia Coupé

[Ray B.]

Hi, Alemano,
We may have a problem here: I have it a a 1955 Fiat 1900 Coupe by Ghia (from a German website). I checked your answer and found the same info on another german website. Which one is right? Do you have any other source?

[Allemano]

I saved it a long time ago under Lancia Aurelia B52 Ghia Coupe.
If you want to prove its reliability you'll find many results by googling.

I know that German source — 1949 Zagato 1100 Coupé is also wrong 

[Ray B.]

All right. You seem to know your business. I had found one source that agreed with you by googling (advanced image search). I founs a few others by googling (advanced search).
But the rule is that you were supposed to support your identification, not I. My rule anyway.
That's one more point for you.

[Allemano]

But the rule is that you were supposed to support your identification, not I. My rule anyway.
That's one more point for you.

Will heed your advice next time,
but was hinted to disclose not to much.
Think it will hardly happen again.

[Ray B.]

I know it's hard, I've had that dilemma before. If you reveal a source, you take the chance to lead other puzzlers towards one of those secret websites you know, a provider of your best puzzles...

[Paul Jaray]

Hi, I think that this car is not the B52 Ghia coupe.... this design was made by Boano for Ghia in different versions and for different chassis, as the Fiat 1400 Coupe, the Alfa Romeo 1900 Coupe and finally the Lancia Aurelia B55 (the number of the chassis for the coachbuilders even if all the sources consider it a B52) . All those cars were called B-junior, in fact the logo over the rear wheel is B-junior. In my pic, you can see the Lancia B55, that is slightly different for the one you posted (the chrome trim on the side, the steering wheel position, the fin on the back is more accentuated in the Lancia,the space between the wheel and the door and between the wheel and the bumper)..I think this should be the Alfa Romeo, in fact the Fiat has got a different grille.I've got a book with all Ghia's designs and I will check when I'll be back home, 'cause I was not able to find a pic of the Alfa on the net.

[Ray B.]

Very interesting, Paul, and quite a surprise. I knew the Green car was the Lancia, I'd seen a close-up with the Lancia badge, but I hadn't paid enough attention to the differences with the puzzle car.
Sorry, Allemano, I guess your point might not live long.
Question is: who will get it?  I have a better idea: Allemano keeps his point for finding Ghia and B52, which wasn't wrong and not so easy. Paul will have another when he gives the exact identification, backed with some evidence.
Until then, I change the topic name to Ghia B-junior Coupé

[Allemano]

The Aurelia is veryfied I think. The Alfa 1900 is obviousely shown on the B+W picture. Therefore I guess that the orange-white car has to be the Fiat 1400, because of it's source.

[Paul Jaray]

The Alfa 1900 is obviousely shown on the B+W picture.

My opinion is that the B+W pic is the Fiat 1400 and that site took the AR1900 for a Fiat 1900 (?), but considering your knowledge of italian cars (per inciso, sei italiano?) probably you can find some more evidence for that...I would do it myself but I've got a limited access to the net and I do not have my books with me.

[Allemano]

I'm in touch with somebody who really is an expert according Italian cars.
Let's wait what he has to say..

[Allemano]

My buddy wrote recently: "your added picture is, according to my sources, a prototype B-junior on a Fiat 1900 basis"

[Paul Jaray]

That doesn't say much...I'm sure that my first pic is the Lancia and the 3rd one (the B+W) is the Fiat.The chassis of the Lancia is longer than the red one and I know that there is another car with this design, the Alfa, but I can't find any pic, hence my guess...if your friend's source is that site, I do not think it is reliable, but if He was able to find Ray B.'s pic as a Fiat 1900 by Ghia somewhere else, probably that's it. I've got an encyclopedya about Ghia cars with an entire chapter on the B-junior cars by Gianpaolo Boano...when I'll be back home ( ) looking for it will be the 2nd thing that I'm going to do...

[Allemano]

I'm not convinced about the car with orange bottom and still believe it is also a Lancia Aurelia B52.
Carrozzeria cars rarely are as alike as two peas in a pod. It changed from the particular client's wishes.
What confirms me even more is the fact that the turqoise and orange car got identical grilles which normally is a distinctive feature. (similar Ghia "Supersonics" for example) The B+W Fiat b-junior definetly has a different grille!

Only speculation of course ...

[Otto Puzzell]

All three look like customized Mercury coupes to me. 

Ghia ha portato di slitte trainate?

[Allemano]

Ghia ha portato di slitte trainate?

   I'm unfortunately not from Italy and does not understand anything.

[Paul Jaray]

Ok, I'll tell you when I'll be back. If the only differences were the body-paint and the chrome trim I would have consider them as natural differences, but I see a consistant difference in the proportion of the 2 cars. It's not so unusual for a coachbuilder to use the same design even for the grille, for different brands, sometime they just took away the body from a chassis trying to fit it onto another! But I can be wrong and that can be another Lancia, or a Fiat 1900, of course.
Here's you more....







BTW Otto, about your sentence, all the words are correct, but there is no sense in them...it's something like "Ghia has brought of towed sleights"

[Allemano]

Meanwhile I've recognized that "B-Junior" obviousely isn't a particular design scheme, but problaby describes the early works of Mario Boano's 'junior' Gian Paolo.
This is also a "B-Junior" and this time even an Alfa Romeo 1900. 

[Paul Jaray]

Wow! I'm really looking forward to look into that book now...we have the Fiat, at least 2 different Lancia and the Alfa Romeo.
 I've also a book with the Fiat 1900 specials, so I'll be able to see if Ray's car is a Fiat or not, and I'll post a scanned page of all the pics I can!

[Otto Puzzell]

Ghia ha portato di slitte trainate?

   I'm unfortunately not from Italy and does not understand anything.

It probably doesn't mean what I wanted it to mean, either. I typed 'lead sled' into Google Translator, set it for English to Italian translation, and that's what it gave me.

Below is a '49 Mercury 'lead sled' (aka, 'led sled')

[Allemano]

A faint resemblance can't be denied... 

[Allemano]

@Paul Jaray:
    any clearness about the B-junior subject?

[Paul Jaray]

@Paul Jaray:
    any clearness about the B-junior subject?

I`m still stuck here in the Afghan desert...I should be home for the first days of November (I hope)...with me I`ve got my laptop with thousands of pics and my memory...not enough!

[Allemano]

I guess you're on a dangerous expedition... Hold on!