Topic: Whaddya... help!!! #95 - 1947 PLM - Solved by Tom McCahill, Paul Jaray and Arunas

[Ray B.]

Ever seen this ? I have no idea of what it is myself. All I know is that the picture is supposed to have been taken in Brussels circa1935.

Please, respond below and let us know the make of the car posted here.
Please give any element of proof you have with your answer.
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Also, please be sure to check out our other puzzles, and, please post a puzzle of your own if you'd like - the more, the merrier.

Thanks!

[Ray B.]

Here is a note that goes with the picture.

[grobmotorix]

It strongly reminds me of the french F.A.V.E.L. (Fabrication de vehicules Automobiles electriques legers), but the details tell another story...

I think it´s "just" a special body on a conventional, maybe even front engined, chassis.

Is it french?

[Ray B.]

Is it french?

I don't know (read my first post)

[Ray B.]

If I could, I'd grant myself a point. I have found more information about the car, and another photo. It's not much, but it comes from the great Tom McCahill himself who has seen the car, and possibly took the picture, in 1947. He identifies it as a "P.L.M." which could be connected with the "Louis Maes" mentioned above. This doesn't prove that there was more than one produced, yet.
I leave this puzzle open. Maybe European puzzlers can find more informations about it.

[Paul Jaray]

I know a car from belgium called PLM wagon, from 1954, and if I remember correctly was related with the Bobby Kar and the Keller...there should be something in the Burges Wise Encyclopedia, but I do not have it with me....

[Ray B.]

Thanks Paul. I don't have that either, but I am patient.

[Paul Jaray]

Probably it's not.... there is written: ' Keller: (...) In 1949 only 18 cars were built, but the wagon was built also in Anversa, Belgium, in 1954-55 under the name PLM."

[Ray B.]

Probably it's not.... there is written: ' Keller: (...) In 1949 only 18 cars were built, but the wagon was built also in Anversa, Belgium, in 1954-55 under the name PLM."

This one seems vey different from the Bobbi Kar or the Keller, and we are sure the picture is dated 1947. So I guess it has nothing to do with Keller.
On the other hand, what you say confirms the existence, as reported by McCahill, of a belgian company called PLM (maybe, I still believe, ralated to a Louis Maes). Maes is quite a comon name in Belgium and I couldn't find no trace of one connected with that car yet.
As for the first picture, my source gives it as dated  from 1935. But the woman's dress and hairdo would be more likely from 1947 and the postwar years.

[Ray B.]

It's hard to tell who identified this real mystery car.
Tom McCahill was first, but, supposing he's still alive, he's not a recognized Autopuzzler.

Paul Jaray confirmed the existence of the PLM company and its location, and I think this is worth point.

In another puzzle, Arunas gave its whole name (Poelmans Merksen, Antwerpen under the brand name PLM.) and I think this is worth another, even if he didn't exactly link his discovery to this puzzle.

[DeAutogids.nl]

Sorry to spoil your happyness, but I think the plot thickens.

(link removed)

(translation from that page: )

Maes Louis Ainé 1928 - 1952
In 1928, Carrosserie Maes Louis Ainé started in Antwerp at 33, Sint Vincentiusstraat a workshop for car bodies. Not just cars, but trucks and busses were build up. Eventhough Maes was a relative small player on the market, he was rather well known, as he made beautiful designs.
In 1951 the company got into trouble when it took a order which the company could not handle from the "Buurtspoorwegen" railway company, after which the company went bankrupt.

If you look at his design on trucks and busses, like these:

Based on Mack

Based on Ford

you see a similarity in design.

[DeAutogids.nl]

Arunas gave its whole name (Poelmans Merksen, Antwerpen under the brand name PLM.)

Not exactly, as the name is Poelemans and Merksen (actually, I think it should be Merksem) is a town near Antwerp.

I found some more info on PLM here: (link removed)

Apparently, they made at one stage 4 cars a day, still not enough for long term success.

[Allemano]

@DeAutogids.nl:
Though you like to help which is basically OK we have a rel. strict rule that permits linking to pages like you've done in your previous post(s).
Please read the "Puzzles Rulebook":
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=6857.0

[Allemano]

You needn't remove the pics! These are OK!

[DeAutogids.nl]

I expected everything, but not a rule that does not permit linking, but does so for pictures.

[Allemano]

I expected everything, but not a rule that does not permit linking, but does so for pictures.

So, we're learning something new every day...
If you upload pics from your computer noone will see from which source you took these. What's the problem?

Of course in most of the cases a clever puzzler will find the sources with a little digging, but at least that's in his own hands!

[Paul Jaray]

I suggest a friendly approach:
@ DeAutogids.nl, the rule has a valid reason to exists: if each one of us post a link where the cars can be found, it will be harder and harder to find new places were look for new puzzles to post. Without a direct link, everybody can try to find back the origin, but at least it is a bit more difficult.
The pics are ok, because that's what this is all about.

[DeAutogids.nl]

I suggest a friendly approach:
@ DeAutogids.nl, the rule has a valid reason to exists: if each one of us post a link where the cars can be found, it will be harder and harder to find new places were look for new puzzles to post. Without a direct link, everybody can try to find back the origin, but at least it is a bit more difficult.
The pics are ok, because that's what this is all about.

It was friendly enough, it is just that it is better to forbid hotlinking too, else one could theoratically find the source of the picture and then the solution to puzzles too. Just my 2 cents

[DeAutogids.nl]

To come back on the subject. Interestingly, Maes also made woodies, one for example based upon a Jeep. It might therefore be not impossible to think that Poelemans opened a company, buying old stock of the Keller Motors Continental in Brussels and sourced Maes to actually build them.

[Paul Jaray]

Looking at your pictures I think you find the right maker...

[Allemano]

I expected everything, but not a rule that does not permit linking, but does so for pictures.

So, we're learning something new every day...
If you upload pics from you're computer noone will see from which source you took these. What's the problem?

Of course in most of the cases a clever puzzler will find the sources with a little digging, but at least that's in his own hands!

I didn't intend to be unfriendly. Hope you weren't offended. 

But to make it clear: reasonably there shouldn't be any links written on those pics. Furthermore you should't link the pics directly from the obscure source, but to save them to your HD first.  After that you can upload them to Autopuzzles.com (Additional Options.. pop-up menu at the bottom of the page). Otherwise it's indeed easy to find the link adress! Of course you can load them from upload services like "Photobucket" or others as well, but unfortunately some of our members aren't able to see them due to job office traffic/firewall restrictions. Another drawback is that in any case you change or delete the uploaded pics there aren't visible anymore or you have to link them once again.

[DeAutogids.nl]

Not offended, though this source won't be of much help to most, as it is a truck site (just to put you off )

[DeAutogids.nl]

Histoire de l'Automobile Belge shows a picture where you can see something that seems to prove the point I made earlier;

I believe that Poelemans of 107 Bredalaan in Merksem, near Antwerp, bought the left stock from the Keller Motors Continental of Brussels.
The Louis Maes Aine (firstborn) coach builders made a woody out of these. These are what the book calls "Pullman station cars" (though I feel this is a misunderstanding again, Pullman and Poelemans have a very similar sound to them)

The picture shows that the woodies are made out from what seems to be a chassis, window frame and a bonnet.

[Paul Jaray]

The car is definetly from 1946 (or before).
I found this picture in a '46 magazine:
"von einem belgischen Karossier wurde der PLM vargefuehrt, eine vierplaetzige Limousine mit Stromlinien fuehrung"