Author Topic: Solved -PJ299- 1908 Bobrie Freres 8hp Model C  (Read 5947 times)

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Offline Allemano

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Re: PJ - 299
« Reply #75 on: April 02, 2010, 04:38:05 PM »
Was it for sale in France?

Offline Allemano

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Re: PJ - 299
« Reply #76 on: April 02, 2010, 04:38:39 PM »
..maybe by a famous auctioneer?

Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: PJ - 299
« Reply #77 on: April 02, 2010, 04:45:15 PM »
It was for sale by a famous auctioneer years ago.

Offline Allemano

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Re: PJ - 299
« Reply #78 on: April 02, 2010, 04:51:46 PM »
Is it the only car of that make?

Offline Allemano

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Re: PJ - 299
« Reply #79 on: April 02, 2010, 04:52:20 PM »
Two names?

Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: PJ - 299
« Reply #80 on: April 02, 2010, 05:01:20 PM »

Offline Allemano

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Re: PJ - 299
« Reply #81 on: April 02, 2010, 05:09:08 PM »
I have a name of a french brand that started life in 1908 and disappeared in the very same year...and it's not listed on this topic, yet.
But the car on the pic I've found looks completely different...  :-\
« Last Edit: April 02, 2010, 05:11:48 PM by Allemano »

Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: PJ - 299
« Reply #82 on: April 02, 2010, 05:11:29 PM »
Isn't it worth a try?

Offline Allemano

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Re: PJ - 299
« Reply #83 on: April 02, 2010, 05:11:56 PM »
Let's try it: "Besseyre et Rayne"?

Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: PJ - 299
« Reply #84 on: April 02, 2010, 05:14:46 PM »
Not that...

Offline Amsterdam

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Re: PJ - 299
« Reply #85 on: April 02, 2010, 07:19:07 PM »
Bobrie Fréres Type C
« Last Edit: April 02, 2010, 07:23:42 PM by Amsterdam »

Offline Allemano

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Re: PJ - 299
« Reply #86 on: April 02, 2010, 07:22:43 PM »
You've found it! Congrats!  :)


...though the car is apparently from 1904....
« Last Edit: April 02, 2010, 07:28:49 PM by Allemano »

Offline Amsterdam

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Re: PJ - 299
« Reply #87 on: April 02, 2010, 07:29:30 PM »
You've dound it! Congrats!  :)


...though the car is apparently from 1904....


Thanks! and yes according to the site it is a 1904 Chassis No 16
« Last Edit: January 18, 2024, 12:34:39 PM by Wendax »

Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: PJ - 299
« Reply #88 on: April 02, 2010, 07:33:57 PM »
Congratulations! That's the car!
Well done,
Here the story I have:
"Engine: De Dion Bouton single cylinder, 100 x 120mm bore and stroke, 942cc, water-cooled with mechanically operated valves, magneto ignition; Gearbox: three speed and reverse, cone clutch, shaft-drive to bevel back axle; Suspension: front, semi-elliptic leaf springs, rear, three-quarter leaf springs; Brakes: two wheel drum. Right hand drive and controls.

Saumur, on the south bank of the sleepy river Loire, is not an industrial centre. It is best known for its fairy-tale chateau that dominates the town and the vine-covered hinterland that in a good year produces wines of above average quality, and in other years not, both reasons why the locals keep knowledge of their production largely to themselves. They also seem to have exhibited a similar reticence on the subject of motorcars produced in the town, since the name of Bobrie Freres appears in not one period or later list of car producers, and the make has been lost to history until now. Were it not for the survival of this one example this would almost certainly have remained the case.

That this voiturette with its De Dion Bouton engine of about 1908 is not just a re-badged example from a well-known maker is shown by the fact that the words 'Bobrie Freres - Constructeur' are cast into the gearbox and the back axle, the name is engraved on the hub-caps, and it appears on the dashboard plate and the threshold strips, along with the Saumur address. The 1907 Michelin Guide reveals that the Bobrie Freres were garagistes at 28 rue St Nicolas, and, significantly, were the De Dion Bouton agents for Saumur. By 1913 they had moved to the rue de Bordeaux, and were then also agents for Berliet, Clement-Bayard, and Renault. Manufacture of motorcars is not mentioned at all in either entry.

It is not only the name on the components that singles it out as an 'own make' but it also has a distinctive technical feature: an extension of the gearbox casting forms a bell-housing over the flywheel and clutch and unites it with the engine crankcase, thus forming in effect a single unit. Decauville and Motobloc had pioneered this form of unit construction on larger cars in the first years of the 20th century, but it is most unusual to find it on a voiturette, even from several years later.

The car has been stored in less than ideal conditions and is very rusty. It has suffered some hacking about of the bell-housing and appears to be missing at least its prop-shaft and radiator. Therefore it requires total restoration. However once done it will make a charming addition to the ranks of surviving voiturettes and for once the term 'unique au monde' so often arbitrarily applied to the most commonplace of motorcars displayed in French museums can correctly be used."


Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: PJ - 299
« Reply #89 on: April 02, 2010, 07:38:00 PM »
Here you have few lines about Bobrie Freres (1908-1923):

"S'il existait un palmarès de la curiosité automobile, la marque parisienne Bédélia se verrait certainement décerner un prix d'honneur pour son étonnant cyclecar. Difficile en effet de passer inaperçu au volant de cet engin extrêmement profilé, et caractérisé surtout par la disposition particulière de ses sièges en tandem. Une originalité dont la paternité revient sans doute à la marque Bobrie, créée à Saumur, dans le Maine-et-Loire, par Camille et Léonce Bobrie quelques années précédant la première guerre mondiale. Les deux frères ont en effet débuté la fabrication puis la commercialisation, dès 1908, d'une série d'environ dix petites voitures qui présentaient cette disposition inaccoutumée des sièges en tandem. Mais la similitude entre les deux marques s'arrête à ce singulier détail car, durant toute sa production automobile (1908-1923) Bobrie a entretenu une vocation purement régionale avec un chiffre des ventes restreint, alors que Bédélia s'est progressivement hissé en tête des ventes de cyclecars dans tout l'hexagone. Une notoriété qui avait pourtant débuté par un fait divers anodin qui aurait pu avoir des conséquences tragiques !"

Offline Amsterdam

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Re: PJ - 299
« Reply #90 on: April 02, 2010, 07:42:27 PM »
Congratulations! That's the car!
Well done,

Thank you! 

Offline Allemano

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Re: Solved -PJ299- 1908 Bobrie Freres 8hp Model C
« Reply #91 on: April 02, 2010, 07:43:14 PM »
after all 1908 seems the more reliable year...

Offline Tackitt

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Re: Solved -PJ299- 1908 Bobrie Freres 8hp Model C
« Reply #92 on: April 02, 2010, 08:02:36 PM »
Thank God I can stop looking now.

Offline pnegyesi

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Re: Solved -PJ299- 1908 Bobrie Freres 8hp Model C
« Reply #93 on: April 03, 2010, 10:58:47 AM »
And it was in the guide de l'automobile francaise, just as "Bobery" without a year :(
https://rareandunique.media - Rare&Unique Vehicles magazine
http://magyarjarmu.hu - detailed Hungarian motoring history (Hungarian language)
http://automuseums.info - motoring museums' guide

Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: Solved -PJ299- 1908 Bobrie Freres 8hp Model C
« Reply #94 on: September 23, 2010, 03:42:54 PM »
Here you are another example of the "do not trust all you find in the net" rule.

This car is not that obscure after all. The reason why it was not that easy to find is that it was not named after its builder.
Léonce et Camille Bobrie were bicycle makers and Berliet agents and they built few cars (Ballot engine-Arbel chassis body by Bobrie) called La Torpille.
Under this name there are many sources.
"La Torpille" is described as a tandem-seated cyclecar with a Ballot engine of 6 or 8 hp, and a 2-speed gearbox...quite different from this one, but later models had side-by-side seating, Ballot or Fivet 6/8 hp engine.