Topic: Solved - NEH 414: 1954 Jaguar XK140 Special

[Carnut]

Know what this is?
1 point for correctly identifying it:

[Otto Puzzell]

Featured and tweeted!

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[Carnut]

 

[Oguerrerob]

Jaguar XK race version

[Carnut]

Jaguar XK race version

It's Jaguar-based, but you need to be a lot more specific!

[Oguerrerob]

Lister Jaguar E type

[Carnut]

Lister Jaguar E type

Lister is also correct, but E-type isn't!

[Oguerrerob]

Then must be Lister Jaguar Racecar

[Carnut]

Then must be Lister Jaguar Racecar

It is a Lister-Jaguar racing car, that much is already established!
What is it based on?

[Carnut]

Solve it please, Experts!

[Amsterdam]

Lister Jaguar coupe basedon a XK140 Lightweight Coupe ?

[Carnut]

Lister Jaguar coupe basedon a XK140 Lightweight Coupe ?

Yes!
Another point for you.

[D-type]

Are we sure about this? 
In Doug Nye's definitive Lister history  Powered by Jaguar, the only Lister-Jaguar coupe mentioned is chassis BHL126(20 or BHL136 a spaceframe car built up on the chassis of a crash-damaged Costin Lister registered WTM 446 and raced at Le Mans in 1963 later powered by the engine from a lightweight E-Type.  But absolutely no mention of an XK140 anywhere in its history.

[Carnut]

According to my info that's what it is - a 1955 Lister-Jaguar XK140.

It's currently owned by a guy named Trevor Groom and here's a picture of him driving it in the VSCC Pomeroy Trophy Race at Silverstone on 27th February 2010; will try to check the list of entries to get a bit more info but if you have a look yourself you may be able to verify the info (or not as the case may be...!)

The body certainly looks later than 1955..

[Carnut]

I'm struggling to see definite proof that this is a Lister-Jaguar.

Trevor Groom is a Jaguar XK specialist who has regularly raced XK140s down the years.
He has recently entered a '1959 Lister-Jaguar XK140 - blue' in various races, which might be the car pictured but I still haven't seen proof that it is.  He has some pictures on Flickr, including this car, but it's not possible to see a caption that describes it as a Lister-Jaguar.

If it is one then the proof will be out there somewhere!

[Allan L]

According to my info that's what it is - a 1955 Lister-Jaguar XK140.

It's currently owned by a guy named Trevor Groom and here's a picture of him driving it in the VSCC Pomeroy Trophy Race at Silverstone on 27th February 2010; will try to check the list of entries to get a bit more info but if you have a look yourself you may be able to verify the info (or not as the case may be...!)

The body certainly looks later than 1955..

The results show 89 as Trevor Groom in a 1955 XK140 d.h.c.
I know a bit about 1950s cars, Jaguars and body styles and that car in the photo is not a 1955 XK140 d.h.c. but it may once have been for all I know.
Here's another photo of it at the Pom, but I'm still confused.

As for it being a Lister, is there confusion with this one:

[D-type]

Wire wheels suggest it isn't a Lister-Jaguar - they all had alloy wheels (I think the same as the D-Type).  The earlier Bristol and Maserati powered cars did have wire wheels but I can't see anyone wanting to build a jaguar-engined coupe on one of the early chassis..

I suspect this is an XK140 chassis with a body inspired by the Lister Coupe BHL126(2)/BHL136.

[Carnut]

I'll repost the original picture with its caption tomorrow.  It still proves nothing of course..

Some of Trevor Groom's race entries are described as a "Lister Jaguar Knobbly"; doesn't knobbly refer to the wheels (similar to those Lots knobblies)?

Agree that the coupe design does seem to take a lot of cues from the only Lister Jaguar Coupe you have pictured, so is quite probably some kind of copy as you suggest.

[Allan L]

I asked the question on the VSCC forum as the car was in the Pom this year. The answer, so far as it went was
The Jag was rebodied by a man called Tindal a long time ago
The man who gave the answer knows Mr Tindal's son, so I'll see what that leads to.

I guess that Tindal knew the E type and fancied having a car that shape, but with some changes, and went ahead and built one from the old XK140 he happened to have.

Lister Knobbly refers to the body shape vis a vis the Costin-bodied later ones. Their wheels were, as stated, Dunlop knock-ons like those of the D type Jaguar. Knobbly wheels were on things like Cooper and Lotus, but I can't recall anyone calling them "knobbly" at the time.
Oh, and the first Lister Jaguar was built on a Lister-Bristol/Maserati frame.

[Carnut]

Here's the original picture I used with its caption; you shouldn't believe everything you read...
Trevor Groom's email is available so you could always ask him; he might know all the answers!

[D-type]

I'm sure the answer is in the new book on Listers by Paul Skilleter that's just been published :  http://www.paulskilleterbooks.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=68 

[Allan L]

I'm sure the answer is in the new book on Listers by Paul Skilleter that's just been published :  http://www.paulskilleterbooks.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=68 

Not if it's not a Lister, as I think we concluded between us a few posts back.

[D-type]

I'm sure the answer is in the new book on Listers by Paul Skilleter that's just been published :  http://www.paulskilleterbooks.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=68 

Not if it's not a Lister, as I think we concluded between us a few posts back.

Fair point - The Skilleter book will confirm it.  Incidentally the pictures in the advert clearly show the bodywork differences between a "knobbly" and a Costin Lister.
Lotuses had "wobbly web" wheels not "knobbly" anything. 

So should we call this a Tindal-bodied Jaguar  XK140

[Carnut]

A real can of worms this one..
How do you know the car featured in C&SC is the same car, barrett?  Is there a photo you can post?
(I will have that magazine at home, but finding it in the mountain of car mags would be a lifetime project!!)

[Allan L]

From Classic& sportscar, OCT 2001

(after a huge accident at Oulton Park) ''The XK was then rebodied in its own distinctive style by Freddie Owens, leading many to think it was the inspiration for the E-Type, although that car had already been launched. After Hobbs sold it the car continued to be campaigned, primarily by Jack Tindall, before going into hiding''

so according to this, which was presumably information gleaned by Trevor Groom, the rebodying pre-dates Tindall's ownership. Ergo, is should be an XK140 Owens methinks.....

That's the clue: it must have been David Hobbs' car which he raced with the family firm's Mechamatic gearbox, I thought. Google came up with a ClassisCarsForSale advert, the text of which is (I've corrected a typo or seven):
Buy 1954 Jaguar XK140 For Sale
About This Jaguar XK140 For Sale
TAC 743 EX DAVD HOBBS 140 dhc Jaguar,in the hands of David Hobbs this car achieved numerous wins in 1960, including a win at Goodwood, the car later passed on to Dick Tindall who comissioned his pal Freddie Owens who was an extremly good alloy bodywork speciallist to build present body work over the XK floorpan, this car was then campaigned at the Brighton speed trials regularly with Dick Tindall and Freddie Owens, Dick also owned a Bentley/and Lister knobbly.TAC 743 then passed on to a R Bolwes [Bowles?] who had a win at Silverstone in late 70s, then on again to Norman Ewins with a blown engine, Norman spent the next 19 years working on the car, I managed to purchase the car and replaced all the usual XK steel panels put the car back together again and started to race it once more with a few podium finishes culminating in a 3rd at the Goodwood Revival meeting 2006 in the Fordwater Trophy race. The car has FIA papers this is a totally one off car with great potential and history, with future Goodwood chances .For further information contact Trevor. Offers over 100k part ex with interesting car would be considered or a nice XK / ser 1 E type photos to follow of TAC743

a) I bet it hasn't still got that gearbox
b) "blown engine" must refer to blown up, rather than supercharged.