SOLVED: Djetset #169 - Tornado Fiat 600 GT (or) David Render's Fiat 600D

[Djetset]

For a point who made this and what is special about it?

[Djetset]

Phew, hang on in there Experts, this is the last one for the moment.

[metalshapes]

Tornado Fiat 600GT

[metalshapes]

Lotus Twincam powered.

[Djetset]

Got it in one.  Nice work.

[Allan L]

What's going on here then?

[HEMI 426]

Fiat 600D ( or Seat or Zastava  ) with Alfa Romeo engine.
That engine look like Alfa 105 Series of 4 cilinders engine ( 1300/1600/1750/2000 ccm ), they all had same exterior dimensions but differend bore and stroke... I would guess, that this engine in this picture is a 2 liters

[Allan L]

I'm told this is a repost, and it is because since I knew the car it has been given a fancy name and was solved under that, not what it actually is (was) when it was made and used in anger!

I shall answer Hemi 426 by saying that it's not an Alfa motor but, as he says, it is a Fiat 600

[don]

Looks like an Abarth 1000 TC to me.

[Allan L]

Looks like an Abarth 1000 TC to me.

Not Abarth.

[woodinsight]

David Render's Fiat 600D with a Ford 1500 twin-cam engine?

[Allan L]

David Render's Fiat 600D with a Ford 1500 twin-cam engine?

That's what I knew it as, so a point for you!
Modern name is said to be "Tornado Fiat 600 GT" and there was a thread under that name. Means nothing to me so I posted this and stood my ground when told it was a repost!

[metalshapes]

Means nothing to me so I posted this and stood my ground when told it was a repost!

Remind me to never try and help you again....

[Djetset]

Yup, this car was one of a few conversions offered officially by Hertfordshire-based kit/sports GRP car maker Tornado towards the end of the marque's career, and sold as the Tornado Fiat 600 GT.  David Render used to campaign his Tornado 600 GT frequently at the Brighton Speed Trials, as per the accompanying picture.

[Allan L]

Call it what you like now, but I'm pretty sure David called it a Fiat-Ford on the entry forms.

[Djetset]

In the excellent book on Tornado there is a brief chapter on this car, including a period b/w ad from Triple CCC magazine calling it the Tornado Fiat 600 GT.  I'll scan it on shortly when I'm next at home.

[metalshapes]

Call it what you like now, but I'm pretty sure David called it a Fiat-Ford on the entry forms.

Are you sure, or pretty sure?

I'm surprised that you felt the need to " stand your ground" for the name Tornado, but declare the puzzle solved for Fiat-Ford.
Because you remembered it as Lotus-Fiat and Fiat-Lotus when you replied to my P/M in Nov 09.

Anyway, this cant be the first time a cars name has been in question on this Forum.

You'd hope there are better ways of solving those misteries than standing ones ground....

[woodinsight]

I remember attending Brighton Speed Trials back in the 1960s with a friend of mine who was competing against David Render in the Fiat 600D-Lotus TwinCam.
We got to know him quite well then. Although DR's Fiat originally had a 1500cc engine, I think it was later modified or replaced by an 1850cc. Awesome machine!
I'm almost certain it was never called Tornado in those days.

[Djetset]

It's a simple solution.  Type either David Render Fiat 600 or Tornado Fiat 600 into Google, and the car comes up as a Tornado conversion, as it has been since this first conversion was made in 1965 under the Tornado GT banner. 

The main photo used in this puzzle was taken on the Tornado Club stand at the annual 'Specials' day at Burford in the Cotswolds, so it may be that David Render's car is a one-off, inspired by the original mid-1960s car, but very strange in that case that his car would be on the Tornado Club stand!   Still, at the end of the day, it's only a puzzle...

[Allan L]

I'm getting bored with this!
My memory of David and his cars is that, not something I read in a magazine or found on a dodgy internet site, but it is now 40-50 years ago and the detail is elusive.
In those days Tornado was a series of cars made in Rickmansworth, originally Ford E93A specials but later a rather better Talisman.




As for where the photo I used was taken, I expect I got it from David's current brochure in which he sets out the talks he does for his army charity (haven't got the brochure to hand, so can't check).

I don't have to do this, you know.

[metalshapes]

I'm getting bored with this!

I dont see what the problem is with having a discussion about this.
Or why it had to be postponed for about 6 months...

If you have personal knowledge of this car, its very possible that you are correct.
And what can be found on the 'net elsewhere is not.

But t seems to me, that everyone agrees that both threads in the Solved section are about the same car.

So we are only talking about what to call the Merged Thread ( because it seems logical that it will be...)


quote author=Allan L link=topic=10117.msg104813#msg104813 date=1274168047]

I don't have to do this, you know.

That is good to know...

[metalshapes]

And BTW... 

Since we are relying on memory, I have never heard anyone call a Lotus Twincam a Ford Twincam.

( many nicknames, but not Ford )


Did They?



Seems to me, it would lead to confusion with other Ford based engines with 2 overhead camshafts ( from FVA to Zetec, with everything inbetween )
( although, the lotus version was the first )

But it is possible that a 1500cc version was used instead of the much more common 1558 cc.

The very early version was 1500cc, and eventhough supposedly they were all accounted for in Elans and 23's, one could have found its way into the Fiat enginebay...

[Djetset]

I agree with Allan L that this has become tiresome, but making comments like "not something I read in a magazine or found on a dodgy internet site" is rude, arrogant, disrespectful and not at all in keeping with the spirit of a mutually informative website such as AutoPuzzles.  As I said, the 'something I read in a magazine' was a period mid-1960s advert by Tornado, marketing the Ford-powered car as the Tornado 600 GT.  The car also appeared being tested in Autoposport and The Motor magazines in 1964.  The car is also mentioned in the Tornado book co-written by one of the Company's founders with his sone David, as is the text below from the official Tornado website; not  'found on a dodgy internet site.'

AutoPuzzles should be an enjoyable and light-hearted site for all car enthusiasts to enjoy, and not taken too seriously.  However, AutoPuzzles is also a hugely important historical record of the motor car that grows day-by-day, so accuracy is vital.  The following summarised history of Tornado Cars from the guy that founded and ran the company surely therefore has some significance.  Small-scale production of the 600 GT is confirmed half way down.

'The Typhoon sold well with over 300 produced and by 1960 were ready to expand the model range.The Thunderbolt, Tempest and the Sports brake were added. The same year saw Tornado Cars policy of motor sport involvement pay dividends when they won the 750 Motor Clubs' Six Hour Handicap Relay Race at Silverstone. December 1961 marked the introduction of the talisman GT, an attractive four  seats sports saloon. This models specification being much influenced by new Director Colin Hextall. The team of Talisman gave the factory it's second victory in the Six Hour Relay Race in 1963. At it's peak Tornado Cars employed 60 people and was a major employer in the Mill End area. John Bekaert, a renowned racing driver at the time, bought the company in 1963. A new model was introduced, the Tornado Fiat 600D GT which went into limited production alongside the Talisman. However, quality production of cars came to an end in 1964. A new owner, "Bert" Wood, planned relocation to Devon or Scotland and to restart production, this did not happen however and subsequently built the company up to be a well respected body work repair specialist. A tradition carried on by his son Alan until closure in 1986. The Uxbridge Rd site is now owned by Fairway Tyre Services who occupy a modern building which they have named "Tornado House" as a tribute to these exciting cars.'

[Ultra]

Let's all just get along.

Really!

[Djetset]

I couldn't agree more.