Author Topic: JC #21 SOLVED. Dr Roberts' Gatso 4000 Coupé  (Read 3138 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

DeAutogids.nl

  • Guest
JC #21 SOLVED. Dr Roberts' Gatso 4000 Coupé
« on: June 15, 2010, 11:08:46 AM »
Please identify the full name of this car.

And as it is so easy, please find the original owner...

You will get a point for each piece.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2010, 12:04:33 PM by DeAutogids.nl »

Offline Allemano

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 18482
  • Country: de
  • Puzzle Points 821
  • almost retired
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: JC #21
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2010, 12:56:34 PM »
You know that you forgot to rename the uploaded file?

Offline Paul Jaray

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 22326
  • Country: it
  • Puzzle Points 2073
  • MVP
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: JC #21
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2010, 01:46:18 PM »
..I guess you already tried via PM...

DeAutogids.nl

  • Guest
Re: JC #21
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2010, 03:12:10 PM »
You know that you forgot to rename the uploaded file?
I had renamed it on the hard disk, but not actually chosen that file...stupid me..

DeAutogids.nl

  • Guest
Re: JC #21
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2010, 03:38:30 PM »
Let's try it like this

DeAutogids.nl

  • Guest
Re: JC #21
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2010, 07:55:12 AM »
What do the expert think?
« Last Edit: November 01, 2020, 03:00:06 PM by Wendax »

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40948
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: JC #21
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2010, 09:49:58 AM »
This is the Gatso 4000 Coupe of 1948.
Only 2 were built, one for a Dr Roberts of Sneek, Friesland and one for a Mrs Jochems, who was apparently a well-known member of The Hague's high society at the time!

A 4000 2+2 coupe was also built in 1949 to compete in the 1950 Liege-Rome-Liege and was nicknamed 'The Molehill' after its curious-looking top (I thought all Gatsos were curious-looking!)
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

DeAutogids.nl

  • Guest
Re: JC #21
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2010, 10:16:05 AM »
It is, but do you know the owner of this particular car?
Locked for you

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40948
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: JC #21
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2010, 11:39:59 AM »
It is, but do you know the owner of this particular car?
Locked for you

You mean it's possible to tell which of the 2 names I've mentioned this particular car was built for?
Not from any of the sources I can find it isn't!
I'll have to pass on that one.
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

DeAutogids.nl

  • Guest
Re: JC #21
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2010, 12:04:09 PM »
Ok, that leaves one point to play for.

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40948
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: JC #21
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2010, 12:08:06 PM »
Ok, that leaves one point to play for.

Thanks for the point!
If someone else can find what you're looking for they are cleverer than I am...
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline metalshapes

  • Expert
  • *
  • Posts: 883
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 246
  • Hammer & Anvil
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: JC #21 We've got the car, but who is the owner?
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2010, 01:47:15 PM »
I think Dr ( L.D. ? ) Roberts competed with his Gatso.

And that pic looks like its taken at the Zandvoort racetrack.

So my guess is Dr Roberts.


For the record...

I share Dennis Jenkinson's opinion of Mr Gatsonides.


Offline D-type

  • Expert
  • *
  • Posts: 8143
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 251
  • A retired civil engineer interested in cars
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: JC #21 We've got the car, but who is the owner?
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2010, 03:37:03 PM »
Surely the original owner was Maurice Gatsonides

BTW what did Jenks actually say about him/  I can guess at the general sense.
Duncan Rollo

The more you learn, the more you realise how little you know.

Offline metalshapes

  • Expert
  • *
  • Posts: 883
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 246
  • Hammer & Anvil
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: JC #21 We've got the car, but who is the owner?
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2010, 04:02:02 PM »

BTW what did Jenks actually say about him/  I can guess at the general sense.

Maus tested an early version of his speed measuring equipment on the main straight of Zandvoort, during the practice days of a Grand Prix.

No doubt he got permission to set up his equipment because he was a prominent Dutch Racecar driver.

And then he sold his invention to the Dutch ( and some other ) goverment to catch speeders.


( BTW, he has said that ge got the idea when he tricked a cop out of a well deserved speeding ticket of his own...)


Jenks wrote a angry article, basically pointing out the hypocricy and underhandedness off it all.


BTW, it looks like he got his Monte Carlo win ( probably his best motor sport achievement ) by cheating as well.

No outside help was allowed, but he had helpers cool his overheating drum braked by throwing bucket's of water on them.

There is a picture of this...


All in all, by the looks of it, a very unpleasent person...


Offline metalshapes

  • Expert
  • *
  • Posts: 883
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 246
  • Hammer & Anvil
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: JC #21 We've got the car, but who is the owner?
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2010, 04:41:29 PM »
Here it is...

"Denis Jenkinson wrote this in 1960.

During the past season of Grand Prix racing on circuits in Europe two little rubber tubes have been appearing stretched across the track about 100 yards apart, looking rather like those rubber tubes that the Ministry of Transport put down on the road to count the flow of vehicles when making an investigation in road improvements. These tubes appeared at Zandvoort and Nurburgring amongst other places, and were coupled to an electrical device that ticked off hundredths of a second, thus giving the time taken for a car to pass through the measured distance and a conversion table gave the speeds in k.p.h. or m.p.h. as you wished. At Zandvoort for example, the faster cars were reaching just on 150 m.p.h. before they shut off for the hairpin beyond the pits. All this was the work of Maurice Gatsonides, the Dutchman who used to compete in rallies and races, and he has been very busy perfecting this time apparatus which he calls the Gatsometer. Now all this was good fun and instructive and it settled arguments and generally speaking did no one any harm and provided a lot of interest during the practice periods. However, I now find that the Grand Prix racing circus was merely being used as a guinea pig to perfect the mechanism before it was offered for sale. When I say that Gatsonides proudly announced that he had sold the design of his Gatsometer to the police forces of a number of European countries you will understand why I got hot under the collar and wondered whose side he was on. He gave me the rather fatuous answer that it was a very accurate instrument and that now when you got pinched for speeding there would be no question of error. Thanks very much Mr. Gatsonides, next time I am pinched for speeding in France or Belgium I'll know who to blame! The realisation that a speed trapping device has been designed by someone who I thought “was one of us" still leaves me rather incoherent. It is rather like coming face to face with the nonentity of a Civil Servant who actually drew up the master'copy of some of those infuriating and idiotic forms we have to fill in now and then. You read through them and think who on earth could have spent time-drawing up this little lot and then with a shock you meet Mr. Jones from the Ministry who was responsible. It was with just a shock that I listened to Gatsonides telling about his device to catch motorists speeding; and to think he used the Grand Prix boys to perfect it ! Words fail. "


And personally, I think his cars were ugly too... :D

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40948
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: JC #21 We've got the car, but who is the owner?
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2010, 05:59:01 PM »
So my guess is Dr Roberts.

You've got a 50% chance of being right since there were just the two built...

If I guess it was Mrs Jochems then that covers all the angles; one of us should get a point!
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

DeAutogids.nl

  • Guest
Re: JC #21 We've got the car, but who is the owner?
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2010, 05:14:23 AM »
So my guess is Dr Roberts.

You've got a 50% chance of being right since there were just the two built...

If I guess it was Mrs Jochems then that covers all the angles; one of us should get a point!
Right. Unfortunately, you did not choose the right answer.

DeAutogids.nl

  • Guest
Re: JC #21 SOLVED. Dr Roberts' Gatso 4000 Coupé
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2010, 05:24:52 AM »
Well,

Mr. Gatsonides and unpleasant is not up to us to decide, I think.
His Monte Carlo win was because there were people spontaneously throwing water onto his wheels. That that helped cooling them was a pleasant surprise. Of course, I think we know that this is a bit optimistic :).

For time keeping, my understanding was that the invention came out of something a little different, but of course worked out in the end as it did: A cash cow.
Apparently, Gatsonides, wo wanted to market his cars as Gatford, wanted to improve his corner speeds, but to do that, you needed to know how fast you went before and how fast you went with another technique. And so the Gatsometer was invented.

That a racing driver gets upset about a speed trap is maybe understandable, but a bit over the top. And that he can make money with his invention and indeed making speeding fines less of a guess and more scientific is - I believe - better.


PS) In Holland they're now using infrared instead of a normal flash. So you don't know you've been speeding. How this has anything to do with safety is beyond me. I can imagine that a flash makes you look at your odometer and adjust your speed. How can you learn from a infrared flash? And later, when you get the fine, it makes it harder to proof the thing was adjusted improperly. As happened to me once. (flashed at 60km/h, but the sign showed 80. I made some pictures of the situation and didn't have to pay in the end)

Oh well, you never win.

And apparently, the Dutch also invented the wheel clamp.

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40948
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: JC #21 We've got the car, but who is the owner?
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2010, 06:57:55 AM »
So my guess is Dr Roberts.

You've got a 50% chance of being right since there were just the two built...

If I guess it was Mrs Jochems then that covers all the angles; one of us should get a point!
Right. Unfortunately, you did not choose the right answer.

I couldn't because someone else already had!
I was only chucking in my two penn'orth for a bit of fun..!
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

DeAutogids.nl

  • Guest
Re: JC #21 SOLVED. Dr Roberts' Gatso 4000 Coupé
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2010, 07:13:27 AM »
Well, it made me smile.

PS, you can't see it visibly here, but it's license plate gave the identification of the owner.

Offline Allan L

  • Feature Writer
  • *
  • Posts: 4820
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 413
  • Forum Host in Vintage!
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: JC #21 SOLVED. Dr Roberts' Gatso 4000 Coupé
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2010, 08:09:34 AM »
As Gatso 4000s seem to have been made with a different body style for each example (or nearly so) have we now had all of them? We certainly had a couple or three before this one.
Opinionated but sometimes wrong

DeAutogids.nl

  • Guest
Re: JC #21 SOLVED. Dr Roberts' Gatso 4000 Coupé
« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2010, 08:17:53 AM »
I suppose, there were not that many made anyway

Offline metalshapes

  • Expert
  • *
  • Posts: 883
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 246
  • Hammer & Anvil
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: JC #21 SOLVED. Dr Roberts' Gatso 4000 Coupé
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2010, 12:15:32 PM »
Well,

Mr. Gatsonides and unpleasant is not up to us to decide, I think.


I'm sorry if that was inappropriate, but as a racing enthusiast of Dutch descent I had to distance myself...  ;)


Thank you for the point.

I think that promotes me to the Pro ranks.

Offline Amsterdam

  • Expert
  • *
  • Posts: 1642
  • Country: nl
  • Puzzle Points 179
  • xxxAMSTERDAMxxx
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • www.xanaduambulldogs.nl
Re: JC #21 SOLVED. Dr Roberts' Gatso 4000 Coupé
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2010, 12:32:07 PM »
 :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

Lets hear it for the new Pro!!!  Well done!! Metalshapes

DeAutogids.nl

  • Guest
Re: JC #21 SOLVED. Dr Roberts' Gatso 4000 Coupé
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2010, 02:51:33 PM »
Well,

Mr. Gatsonides and unpleasant is not up to us to decide, I think.


I'm sorry if that was inappropriate, but as a racing enthusiast of Dutch descent I had to distance myself...  ;)


Thank you for the point.

I think that promotes me to the Pro ranks.
Welcome!
Dutch myself, but I do not feel bad about an invention like that. Many inventions have been invented for a purpose to end up in a different way as intended.