Author Topic: Solved -PJ237- Freze M17/2 1916 (or not?)  (Read 842 times)

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Offline Paul Jaray

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Solved -PJ237- Freze M17/2 1916 (or not?)
« on: September 30, 2009, 12:01:12 PM »
Know what it is?

Please, respond below and share your knowledge of the name and builder of this car.

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Also, please be sure to check out our other puzzles, and, please post a puzzle of your own if you'd like - the more, the merrier.

Thanks!
« Last Edit: October 06, 2021, 08:10:55 AM by Wendax »

Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: PJ - 237
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2009, 03:32:32 PM »
Experts?

Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: PJ - 237
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2009, 03:09:43 AM »
Pros?

Offline Otto Puzzell

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Re: PJ - 237
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2009, 03:17:23 AM »
Is this one of those cars built to evoke another era? I.e., not a replica of a particular car, but evocative of the early days of motoring?
You wanna be the man, you gotta Name That Car!

Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: PJ - 237
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2009, 03:32:58 AM »
It's not a replica or a nostalgic car.
(the story will be told soon...)

Offline jotage21

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Re: PJ - 237
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2009, 11:26:35 AM »
Is this a kind of truck based roadster?

Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: PJ - 237
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2009, 11:41:55 AM »
Not truck based, but there may be a connection....

Offline Otto Puzzell

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Re: PJ - 237
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2009, 11:49:44 AM »
American LaFrance?
You wanna be the man, you gotta Name That Car!

Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: PJ - 237
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2009, 12:03:23 PM »
Not an ALF...

Offline spider murphy

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Re: PJ - 237
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2009, 12:25:29 PM »
Freze M built by Pjotr Alexander Freze (Sovjet Union) in 1917.

Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: PJ - 237
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2009, 12:33:11 PM »
That is the name I have!
In the meantime I received a PM by a member who has got more info about, and it seems that this car is indeed a fake.
One point for you, spider.
 

Offline faksta

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Re: PJ - 237
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2009, 02:14:56 PM »
Yes, thanks for pointing my attention to this :)

I have seen this car at another website and out of curiosity contacted a specialist in Russian pre-Soviet cars. The story seems to be the following. In general Frese is known for building cars from 1899 until 1908, when it has become an affiliate of RBVZ and started to produce bodies for Russo-Baltique cars. Sometimes it is said that through 1916-1917 Frese has returned to producing own cars, but it has never been proved by any documents. What has been proved is that Frese was busy with repairing cars of many makes during those years, often applying their own badges or plates on them.
The car in a puzzle was found somewhere in an awful condition, with almost no identification marks, and the man who found it seemingly considered it to be one of those (mythical) late Frese cars. Most possible is that it was one of the cars repaired at the factory. You can also notice that the name of the make is written with a mistake on a badge (Фрэзэ instead of Фрезе).
Shortly, it seems to be a fake car, without malice maybe, but still fake.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2021, 08:12:28 AM by Wendax »

Offline Arunas

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Re: PJ - 237
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2009, 02:32:55 PM »
Yes, thanks for pointing my attention to this :)

I have seen this car at another website and out of curiosity contacted a specialist in Russian pre-Soviet cars. The story seems to be the following. In general Frese is known for building cars from 1899 until 1908, when it has become an affiliate of RBVZ and started to produce bodies for Russo-Baltique cars. Sometimes it is said that through 1916-1917 Frese has returned to producing own cars, but it has never been proved by any documents. What has been proved is that Frese was busy with repairing cars of many makes during those years, often applying their own badges or plates on them.
The car in a puzzle was found somewhere in an awful condition, with almost no identification marks, and the man who found it seemingly considered it to be one of those (mythical) late Frese cars. Most possible is that it was one of the cars repaired at the factory. You can also notice that the name of the make is written with a mistake on a badge (Фрэзэ instead of Фрезе).
Shortly, it seems to be a fake car, without malice maybe, but still fake.

Very interesting story. Well done, faksta!

Offline faksta

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Re: PJ - 237
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2009, 02:44:58 PM »
Very interesting story. Well done, faksta!

Thanks! Although the research is not my courtesy  :)

Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: PJ - 237
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2009, 02:45:33 PM »
Here are a couple of views of this car and what the owner of the car claims to be a period pic of it
« Last Edit: October 06, 2021, 08:14:48 AM by Wendax »

Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: PJ - 237
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2009, 03:13:40 PM »
One point both to Spider Murphy and Faksta.
If there are some news about, post them here.

Offline faksta

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Re: Solved -PJ237- Freze M17/2 1916 (or not?)
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2009, 03:34:24 PM »
Well, thanks, but technically I haven't solved anything  :)

Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: Solved -PJ237- Freze M17/2 1916 (or not?)
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2009, 03:44:54 PM »
We both know that you sent me a PM with the whole story when this one was posted in the Rookie section.
Spider Murphy found the car, you found the story behind.  ;)