Topic: Solved JJ #55: Austin 1800 V8

[jimjarron]

Another puzzle from me.  Can anyone tell us what this is?

[jimjarron]

Experts?

[hugo90]

Is that a Holden V-8?

[guido66]

I know the car is LHD but is it a Rover 3500 V8?

[jimjarron]

I know the car is LHD but is it a Rover 3500 V8?

You've guessed the engine, now for the car.

And what makes you think it's LHD?...................

[guido66]

The brake servo.

[hugo90]

I thought the brake servo made it LHD, but it looks like fluid reservoir on the right.  The sheet metal is reminding me of Land Crab, but they were front drivers.  Is that Austin 1800 sheet metal we see?

[jimjarron]

I thought the brake servo made it LHD, but it looks like fluid reservoir on the right.  The sheet metal is reminding me of Land Crab, but they were front drivers.  Is that Austin 1800 sheet metal we see?

Yes it is, but this isn't your average landcrab.  Can you tell us what's different about it and why?

[guido66]

Is it locked for hugo90 or am I also allowed to answer?

[metalshapes]

Is it locked for hugo90 or am I also allowed to answer?

Yep, I found it too.
But I wont post it, because Guido found it sooner...

[guido66]

Thnx metalshapes, you're next in line 

[hugo90]

Could it be a test mule for P76?

[jimjarron]

Could it be a test mule for P76?

As it didn't have a specific name, I think that's as good a description as any.  The point is yours.

Here's a description of the Austin 1800 V8 from “Leyland P76 – The Definitive Guide To Australia’s Most Controversial Car” by Hal Moloney (Marque Publishing Co. 2002):

The concept of an all-Australian vehicle was originated by the Advance Model Group of BMC Australia after they completed a comprehensive study in 1967. J B Anderson, Sid Ferguson, Don Imison and Ross Webber were members of the group. Their findings created the first step in the development of what would eventually become known as the Leyland P76. The main objectives were to provide:

A medium sized vehicle with good interior space.
An easily accessible vehicle.
An attractive body, retaining the company's European heritage, but styled to suit the Australian market.
A vehicle in the image expected of Leyland (described by the company as "Anything but Average").
A durable car with good suspension, ride and handling characteristics.

In November 1968, the Managing Director of BMC Australia, Bill Abbott, and David Beech went to the United Kingdom to gain acceptance for the proposal. An investment of $35 million was envisaged but this figure would have been beyond the local manufacturer.

The company intended to have a two-model range in Australia for the 1970s, codenamed Model A and Model B. Model A was to be a medium sized car, above the Mini and Model B would be the large family car to take on Holden, Ford and Chrysler.

When Abbott and Beech were in the UK, the BMC people showed them the forward model plans for the then-secret Morris Marina. The car showed a remarkable resemblance to the model "A" concept BMC Australia had been planning, so they agreed to accept the Marina for Australia instead. It was a much less expensive proposition than continuing with their own, unique design.

The first Model B prototype family-sized vehicle, built in 1968, was a front wheel drive Austin 1800 V8 automatic with Hydrolastic suspension. The only external difference between it and a standard Austin 1800 was a 116 mm extension of the front mudguards and bonnet. However, producing such a vehicle with a high local content was not economically feasible.

When the prototype Austin V8 was built, it turned out to be 23 kg under the original target weight. Experimental Technician Ross Webber summarised the project, "While the characteristic vibrations from the single plane crankshaft were most pronounced, the Rover V8 provided the vehicle with excellent performance. The light steering efforts at parking speeds were most impressive but under power with the wheels on lock the efforts became excessive. Handling while cornering under full throttle was superb, but with part or closed throttle the vehicle exhibited strong understeer on the 4.5-inch narrow wheels fitted and this was unacceptably severe." The Austin 1800 V8 also suffered from severe torque steer under acceleration.

The final paragraph of the conclusions in the engineering report is of special interest, "The power unit design proved feasible, but the development and manufacturing costs of the transmission and associated components when compared to the alternative “common industry” rear-wheel-drive systems then available, dictated that this scheme be discontinued"

Which is why we did not see a front wheel drive Leyland P76.

I was talking a while back to a former BMC/Leyland Australia employee who was there at the time this car was made, and he told me that the V8 1800 was never intended to be a prototype of a production vehicle. It was a design study only, constructed using available components and was used to test and evaluate various ideas for the car that ultimately became the P76. It was, incidentally, the same as a standard 1800 from the front windscreen back.

One of the things they wanted to find out was whether a front wheel drive V8 was a realistic proposition. Up to that time, their experience with front wheel drive was confined to the Mini, 1100 (and variations of the 1100) and the 1800, and these cars although they were built in Australia had of course been developed in the UK - all the cars that BMC/Leyland had developed in Australia had been rear wheel drive. One unknown was how a front wheel drive car would behave if it had an engine that developed about 150 bhp rather than something such as the A series and B series engines. The V8 engine was only one of the ideas tried out on this car: another was that it was equipped with centre-point steering.

[metalshapes]

Thats the car I found as well, but this last post has a lot more info.

And now I have a couple of questions...

I thought the V8 prototype was a more or less standard Landcrab, but with a V8 engine swap and converted to RWD.


But the info says it wasn't converted to RWD, it was still FWD.

But wasn't the 1800 4 inline mounted sideways in the car ( on top of the gearbox, basicly scaled up from a Mini ) ?

The Puzzle pic shows the V8 lengthwise ( N-S instead of E-W )


Am I missing something?

[jimjarron]

The Austin V8 was definitely front wheel drive.  I'll have to check and get back to you with more information on how the engine and gearbox were mounted.

Yes, the engine was mounted transversely in the standard 1800, with the distributor at the front and radiator at the side, which caused no end of problems in rainy weather.  When I drove one, I used to keep a can of WD40 in the boot, and gave the distributor and leads a quick spray if it started to rain, to act as a water dispersant.  Other than that, it was a nice car to drive, and very roomy and comfortable too.

[metalshapes]

Thanks...

Interesting project...

Too bad it did not survive.