Author Topic: Solved - B-GONE STORY  (Read 2416 times)

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Offline @re

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Re: B-SIDE STORY
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2008, 07:38:11 AM »
OK then - the Lagonda. How abut I guess it's an LG45, around 1935-37?

I've found the car, but unfortunately the source for the information seems quite unreliable, as it calls it a Talbot 105...

<<<link removed >>>
« Last Edit: April 08, 2009, 05:15:40 AM by Otto Puzzell »
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Offline Allan L

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Re: B-SIDE STORY
« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2008, 08:51:03 AM »
Sorry but it's not an S type Invicta although it may be 1928
The S type first appeared in 1929 ans had/has a low chassis, underslung at the rear, which this clearly has not.

Edited to say
EPE 97 is the Le Mans car that Lagonda  prepared for the 1936 race that didn't happen.
Technically it is an M45R and I remember it still racing in the 1960s in the hands of Colonel L.S. (Bill) Michael
Edited again to say that it was light blue in those days, the body was very low and it had front and rear wings of a different shape which is my excuse for not recognising it. It now looks much more like it did at Donington in the 1937 TT (before my time - I just have the photos!)
« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 09:35:01 AM by Allan L »
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Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: B-SIDE STORY
« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2008, 09:34:42 AM »
A - BNC Type 527 Monza 1927
B - Bugatti type 35A 1925
C - OM 665 MM Superba 1927
D - Amilcar CGSS 1926
E - Bugatti Type 13 Brescia 1922
F - Invicta 4.5 litre 1928 (you are right, my fault!)
G - Lagonda LG45 from 1936 (http://www.derek-green.com/DGs_Blog.htm)
H - Aston Martin Ulster 1934
I - Riley Brooklands 1930
J - Bugatti type 38 1927
K - Rally GS Gran Sport 1932
L - MG PB 1936
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Offline Allan L

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Re: B-SIDE STORY
« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2008, 09:40:21 AM »
Derek Green, whoever he is, is wrong. No car raced at the 1936 Le Mans (as I wrote above)
I can't be bothered to argue about LG45 vs M45R, but the sports cars (and hence Le Mans car) would have been M45 Rapides, the LG45 being more of a luxury car.
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Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: B-SIDE STORY
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2008, 10:16:46 AM »
Here they are...

Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: B-SIDE STORY
« Reply #30 on: January 20, 2008, 10:18:49 AM »
Quote
Derek Green, whoever he is, is wrong. No car raced at the 1936 Le Mans (as I wrote above)
I can't be bothered to argue about LG45 vs M45R, but the sports cars (and hence Le Mans car) would have been M45 Rapides, the LG45 being more of a luxury car.
I won't bother you but I'll reply whit more evidences as soon as I get them.

Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: B-SIDE STORY
« Reply #31 on: January 20, 2008, 10:24:38 AM »
Here you are..
Tourist trophy - Pos.14    No.1    Driver: Brian Lewis
http://wsrp.ic.cz/prewar1936.html
24 H Le Mans - "Did not finish" column #22 from the top drivers: Johnny Hindmarsh (GB) and Charles Brackenbury (GB)
http://wsrp.ic.cz/prewar1937.html
and
http://www.brooklandsfestival.co.uk/whatsOn/cars/brdc/
« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 10:29:33 AM by PAUL JARAY »

Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: B-SIDE STORY
« Reply #32 on: January 20, 2008, 10:38:36 AM »
That is from the official 1000 Miglia website of 2006 that no longer exist... (but I've got the web pages from 2001 up to 2007 and are all the same..)

Race #109  Driver: LISMAN      Co-Driver: DOYLE    Car: LAGONDA LG 45 RAPIDE Year: 1936  Naz.:USA

Offline Allan L

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Re: B-SIDE STORY
« Reply #33 on: January 20, 2008, 10:49:31 AM »
All you just posted is right and does not conflict with what I said: Le Mans was not held in 1936 (for which EPE 97 was ready) so Green is wrong to claim that the car raced there in 1936.
The 1936 TT saw it appear as in the first photo looking much as it is today, except not as many lights, the TT being a daylight race. That's Brian Lewis driving, I think
The second photo is it in the 1960s
If they called it an LG45 at the time (which I doubt) it would have been for publicity purposes, although the differences between M45R and LG45R are slight (but include a 6" difference in wheelbase)
« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 11:39:50 AM by Allan L »
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Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: B-SIDE STORY
« Reply #34 on: January 20, 2008, 10:54:10 AM »
Ok, I don't know Mr Green and it was just the first site I found with that car, the point is that this car is a LG45 Rapide, even if your considerations about the destination of the LG45 and M45 are absolutely correct! ;)

Offline @re

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Re: Solved - B-GONE STORY
« Reply #35 on: January 20, 2008, 01:53:56 PM »
Well, I'll confess (as I've done before) that I'm not an expert on older cars. What I'm a bit better at, though, is searching the Web - so I started with the sponsors on the cars' racing numbers and found out that this had to be the Mille Miglia, and when you said it was in 2007 I started looking for photo galleries from the 2007 MM. I found quite a few, and then I found the start list:

http://www.barchetta.cc/All.Ferraris/events-stories/events/2007/rallye-races/mille-miglia/1-mille-miglia-entry-list/index.html

...with all the details of model and year. The only problem, though, is that the numbers don't all match - for example, number 4 is supposed to be a Bentley 4 Litre, which we all can see it isn't, 35 should be a Mercedes 630 SK, which it also quite obviously isn't, 68 should be an OM 665 MM, and so on. So I had to look for similarities instead - which is quite easy until you get to a source that claims that a Lagonda is actually a Talbot, as I said (supercars.net).

The official entry list also claims that there were only two Invictas in the 2007 race, and that they were both 4.5 S models from 1931. Which is why I said it had to be one of those. As for the Lagonda - well, that was a matter of deduction: There are only four different Lagondas on that list: The 3 Litre, the LG45, the LG45 Rapide and the V12 LeMans. It was obviously not the green LeMans, neither was it a 3 Litre, so according to the list it would have to be either an LG45 or an LG45 Rapide. I thought it was more similar to the LG45, so that was my guess.

Of course, the entry list could be wrong (but I thought that would be a bit unlikely). Nevertheless, it's quite a fun way to solve a puzzle - a bit of detective work, really!
« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 01:58:34 PM by @re »
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Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: Solved - B-GONE STORY
« Reply #36 on: January 20, 2008, 02:21:17 PM »
Quote
Those pics were all taken by me in the same event................
You did great, and Allan L too, because there is something you couldn't know....the pics were all taken in the same place and in the same event but ....in different years! I left only one number to make it more confusing! You found the list of the 2007, but the Lagonda in the pic was from the 2005 and so on! The only help was that there are moreless always the same (great) cars!
« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 02:24:10 PM by PAUL JARAY »