Topic: Puzzle #1072 - Solved! 1912 Gobron-Brillie 12 CV Skiff Tourer

[Otto Puzzell]

Know what it is?

Please, respond below and let us know the make and model designation of the car posted here.

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Thanks!

[fnqvmuch]

Austro-Daimler?

[Otto Puzzell]

No sir.

[Otto Puzzell]

Experts?

[Ehhxekt]

One of the very few brass era cars I happen to know: 1912 Gobron-Brillie 12 CV Skiff Tourer.

[Allan L]

One of the very few brass era cars I happen to know: 1912 Gobron-Brillie 12 CV Skiff Tourer.

Beat me to it, but although several internet sources call it a 12CV I would say it's a 40/60 like the (earlier) car owned by Bunny Tubbs of happy memory.
At one time this car had a non-Gobron engine, and maybe the 12 CV derives from that

[Ehhxekt]

One of the very few brass era cars I happen to know: 1912 Gobron-Brillie 12 CV Skiff Tourer.

Beat me to it, but although several internet sources call it a 12CV I would say it's a 40/60 like the (earlier) car owned by Bunny Tubbs of happy memory.
At one time this car had a non-Gobron engine, and maybe the 12 CV derives from that

I "know" the car, I wrote. Let me correct myself. You know it. I just have a few pictures of it on my hard drive, and a (wrong) name attached to them. 

[Otto Puzzell]

This car was displayed by its owner as a 1912 Gobron-Brillié LA 12 Chevaux Rothschild Skiff at the Pebble Beach Concours in 2005.

Cataloged by RM auctions, they described the car in this way:

35hp (rated), 5,970 cc double-piston four-cylinder engine, four-speed manual gearbox, solid front axle with semi-elliptic leaf springs, live rear axle with semi-elliptic leaf springs and double chain drive, two-wheel mechanical brakes and twin transmission brakes. The skiff, or boat, body is quintessentially French. It is constructed of wood to a marine architecture, though it may or may not be boat-tailed. Historian Frederick Usher traces the concept to coachbuilder Jean-Henri Labourdette in 1912. Labourdette, the third generation proprietor of Henri Labourdette, Carrossier, the family coachbuilding firm, was approached by the Chevalier René de Knyff, a director of Panhard et Levassor and a prominent sportsman. De Knyff desired a light but comfortable torpedo offering the least wind resistance. Labourdette studied hull design with a constructor of motor boats, and laid up a body of three layers of mahogany on a frame of ash. When weighed, it measured but 180 kilograms (400 pounds), body, windscreen, wings and fittings. The idea took hold, and in a short time Labourdette had constructed similar examples on chassis from Renault, Peugeot, Hispano-Suiza, Rolls-Royce, Delaunay Belleville and Lancia. Other coachbuilders embraced the style, among them Muhlbacher, Duquesnoe, and Schebera. Skiff bodies are widely said to have been built of tulipwood, but Labourdette himself wrote that he consistently used mahogany. The car being offered is particularly unusual in that it is none of the above, either coachbuilder or chassis.

Instead, it is a skiff by Rothschild on chassis by Gobron-Brillié. Although barely remembered today, Gobron-Brillié was among the French pioneers of the motor industry. Gustav Gobron and Eugene Brillié formed Societé des Moteurs Gobron-Brillié at Paris in 1898. Gobron had achieved fame by escaping by balloon from Paris during the Prussian War. Brillié, an engineer, had developed a novel engine using opposed pistons. Although Brillié left the company in 1903, his engines continued to be used until after World War I. The concept is hard to imagine. Cylinders were cast in pairs, with two pistons in each cylinder. The lower pistons connected by normal connecting rods to the crankshaft. Rather than using a second crankshaft, as is done with modern opposed-piston diesels, the upper pistons connected to a crosshead, the ends of which were connected by rods to crankshaft throws 180 degrees out of phase with those for the lower pistons. Valves were set in opposing side pockets at the point where the two pistons reached their closest approach. The opposing motion of the pistons provides a balance such that all components may be very light. The first car used a vertical twin, and performed well on a variety of fuels.

The 1901 catalogue claimed it would perform with equal felicity on whisky, brandy or gin. By 1900, Gobron-Brillié was building 150 cars per year. Nancienne in France and Nagant in Belgium took out licenses, and Botwoods of Ipswich sold them in England as Teras. Four-cylinder models were built in 1903, when one could choose coil, magneto or even hot tube ignition. A racing Gobron-Brillié broke the 100 mile per hour barrier in 1904. By 1907, engines ranged from 4,523 to 7,598 cc, and cars had twin transmission brakes and double chain drive. The next year saw both smaller and larger engines: a 2,650 cc four and a massive 11,398 cc six. The six cost £1,600 for chassis alone, when a Rolls was but £985. A new company was organised after the war, Automobiles Gobron, in new premises at Levallois-Perret. Opposed-piston cars were continued, but eventually succeeded by a smaller, lighter vehicle with Chapuis-Dornier power. By 1925 it had been reduced to 8CV rating, and about 250 were built through 1927.

The last Gobron automobile was a small sports car akin to Amilcar, with a new 1,496 cc sidevalve four which was Anzani-like but built by Gobron. Only two were built, and the company expired in 1930. J. Rothschild & Fils had roots to 1838, when Austrian-born Joseph Rothschild opened a carriage-building shop in Paris. The first coachwork for cars was built in 1894. Rothschild had hired two young engineering graduates of École Centrale des Arts et Manufactures, Messrs. Rheims and Auscher. The two soon took over the carrosserie, and became adept at shaping sheet steel, producing most of Panhards bodies until 1908 and creating the torpedo body for Camille Jenatzys La Jamais Contente, the electric racer which set the land speed record in 1899. The firm eventually took the name J. Rothschild et Fils, Rheims & Auscher Successeurs and supplied bodies to Clément-Bayard. In the late 1920s, they experienced the same downturn as most coachbuilders and closed in 1930. Reported to have been exhibited at the 1913 Paris Salon where it attracted many onlookers, this car is believed to have been sold there, although the name of the original owner is not known. Around 1920, it was modified with new wings, side storage boxes and a spare wheel was added to the near side. An Autovac replaced the pressurized fuel supply system. A folding windscreen was also fitted where the car originally had none.

After being used a few years, according to tradition, it was put on display in the entryway of one of the large chocolatiers – different versions of the story place it in France or in Luxembourg. Various stories have been advanced for its life between then and its purchase by David Baldock in the 1970s. Complete in most respects, it was engineless at that point in time. It was then acquired by Marc Nicolosi, who managed to locate a genuine Gobron engine, albeit in poor condition, from its resting place beneath the sea. The late Uwe Hucke bought the lot, cleaned everything up and displayed the remains in the Nettlstadt Museum in Germany. In the late 1970s, it went to the von Raffay collection in Hamburg. In 1993, von Raffay engaged restorer Eddie Berresford to rebuild the engine and make the car operable again. In 1997, it finally ran under its own power for the first time in nearly 75 years. It went to the United States early this century, making its first public appearance at Pebble Beach in 2005. It was entered in a special class for skiff-bodied cars that year, which it handily won. Now, having crossed the sea once again, this most unusual and magnificent of motor cars awaits a new home. Documents: US Title Large history file

[Otto Puzzell]

...so, I'm giving each of you a point.

[Allan L]

...so, I'm giving each of you a point.

Thanks for that, Otto!

I saw the Auctioneer's catalogue entry online, as well as various other (post auction) references and photos.
I don't remember David Baldock having it but I'll have a look back at his adverts.
When it was with von Raffay, is was called a 40/60 and there's no way a 5970cc double-piston engine could ever have been rated a 12 CV.
French fiscal CV, like UK RAC horsepower, seems to have been bore-based so my 75mm bore 4-cylinder Mors is 12 CV (or 14 h.p.) (and is 2120cc) - perhaps Ray B. can remind us how the French calculation went.

When Bunny Tubbs needed to register his 40/60 Gobron-Brillié (for the first time) in 1946 he did so in Surrey where they used the normal HP= N*D^2/2.5 ((N)umber of cylinders; (D)iameter of cylinder) even for the double-piston engine, whereas London (where he lived) had a 1.6 divisor, not 2.5.
That would have made it 47 hp, not 30. as he reported his engine to be 110 × 110/90 = 7603cc, by the way..

[@re]

You're amazing 

[Allan L]

You're amazing 

Not really!
Like most people I think, what I know about, I know quite a lot about.
Like many of us in England, and in the Vintage Sports-Car Club, I knew Bunny Tubbs and his "Gobbling Billy" and also, remembering that he had written about his acquisition of it, was able to find that write-up.