Author Topic: Another Name That Engine - Solved! Ford Mustang I V4  (Read 5010 times)

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Offline Otto Puzzell

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Another Name That Engine - Solved! Ford Mustang I V4
« on: December 30, 2006, 08:05:43 AM »
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« Last Edit: April 19, 2015, 04:34:29 AM by Otto Puzzell »
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Offline MG

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Re: Another Name That Engine
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2006, 12:31:32 PM »
Saab V-4?    ???
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Offline Stephen M

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Re: Another Name That Engine
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2006, 02:54:04 PM »
I see no obvious fan or water pump, which means either

A) this piece is air-cooled, which seems unlikely given the un-finned heads; or

B) We're looking at the back of the engine, which leads me to believe this is an aft-mounted V4, which should narrow things down a bit....
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Offline Stephen M

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Re: Another Name That Engine
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2006, 03:04:19 PM »
How about a Ford Taunus V4 as (mid)mounted in the '62 Mustang prototype? The thin-wide-thin center stripe visible in the pic seems to be consistent with the prototype car





IIRC, the engine design was sold/transfered to Saab at some point... meaning MG had this one pegged  :applause:

« Last Edit: December 30, 2006, 03:15:54 PM by Stephen M »
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Re: Another Name That Engine
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2006, 03:43:46 AM »
It is indeed Ford's V4, as installed in the Mustang I from 1962, which now resides at the Henry Ford museum in Dearborn. The engine was originally part of the Cardinal small FWD car project at Ford, which never saw production. Here's a brief story of the car and the engine:

Since it was impossible to build a prototype very rapidly in Detroit, Ford contracted the job to specialist builder Trautman and Barnes in Los Angeles. Planned around a wheelbase of 85 - 90 inches, Mustang I had an engine of 1.5 - 2.0 litres in a steel tube frame covered by a stressed skin aluminum body. An integral rollbar and fixed seats added rigidity. Although the seats didn't adjust, the pedals and steering did, mounting on a sliding box member that allowed positioning to suit any driver.

Roy Lunn (product planner) and Herb Misch (engineer) devised the Mustang I's four wheel independent suspension, then an uncommon feature in Detroit. All shocks and springs were adjustable for ride height and firmness. Steering was rack and pinion, just 2.9 turns lock-to-lock with a tight turning circle of 30 feet. It's engine was also unusual: a 60 degree V4 displacing 1927cc.

For the Mustang I it was tuned up to 90 BHP at 6500 RPM, breathing through a single throat Solex carburetor. The competition version used two twin throat sidedraft Webber carbs and crossover manifold for over 100 BHP. Mustang I was fitted with a four speed transaxle, it's brakes were front disks with rear drums and it's 13 inch magnesium wheels from Lotus England were shod with Pirelli radial-ply tyres. Mustang I was 154 inches long (40 inches high with 5 inches road clearance), rode a 90 inch wheel base, and spanned front/rear tracks of 48/49 inches. A curb weight of under 1200 pounds meant thrilling performance despite the small engine: Top speed was approximately 120 MPH. A low sloping nose housing the spare tyre left little room for a radiator and ductwork, so a pair of diagonally mounted radiators flanked the engine, each with a thermostatically controlled fan. The 13 gallon aluminum fuel tank had a racing style 'Quick Fill' neck.

The Mustang I made it's public debut at the United States Grand Prix at Watkins Glen, New York on October 1962, where it was driven around the circuit by race driver Dan Gurney. 'Car and Driver' tested the car in 90 BHP form and found it's 0 - 60 MPH acceleration was about 10 seconds, yet fuel economy was high at 30 MPG. As expected of mid-engined cars, handling was excellent. Exciting as it was, the Mustang I was a false start. Enthusiasts raved, but Lee Iacocca carefully watched general reaction and shrugged. "All the car buffs said, Hey what a car!' but when I look at who's saying it - the offbeat crowd, the real buffs .... I said "That's sure not the car we want to build, because it can't be a volume car. It's too far out".

Early 1962: Lee Iacocca decided that Ford should have a sporty car. Head of styling Gene Bordinat was to consider shapes for the car. John Najjar and Jim Sipple were asked to work on two-seater ideas. Their result looked promising enough on paper to go ahead with a full-model first in clay. Najjar, an aviation buff, named it Mustang to honour the World War II fighter plane.

May 8, 1962: Roy Lunn and a small group of Ford engineers working in research were authorized to build a "show car" to promote the concept of "Total Performance - Powered by Ford." Lunn and crew were to have it completed, ready for introduction on October 7, 22 weeks later- 100 business days, not counting weekends or holidays. For the last six weeks, most of the crew grabbed what sleep they could in the shops.

The welded tubular space frame was constructed from 1.0 inch outer-diameter tube. Front suspension used traditional upper and lower A-arms with coil-over shock absorbers and an anti-sway bar on a 48 inch tread width. The independent rear suspension used an upper A-arm, similar shocks and anti- sway bar on a 49-inch tread width. A four speed transaxle was fitted with a final drive ratio of 3.30:1

Packed full of features adopted from European racing cars, the two-seater had static bucket seats whose frame actually aided chassis stiffness. To accommodate a variety of drivers, both the steering column and foot pedals moved forward and back a total of 4 inches. Steering was quick, using a 15.0:1 ratio, with 2.9 turns lock-to-lock. Instrumentation was complete and stylish. The 60 degree V4 engine was to be offered in two states of tune for the Mustang. For the street, the 1,500 cc engine was to produce 89 hp at 6,600 rpm and 89 foot-pounds of torque at 3,600 rpm while a racing tune would produce 109 hp at 6,400 rpm and 99 foot-pounds of torque.

It was a very simple overhead-valve design, originally destined for Robert McNamara's pet economy car project, the Cardinal. Roy Lunn presented a paper prepared by Charlie Maddox and Norm Postma to the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE). Typically, SAE papers are chock full of illustrations, charts and photographs to demonstrate and explain the engineering developments of significance that were accomplished.

SAAB's press release regarding the introduction of V4 engines:

SAAB INTRODUCES V-4 MODELS FOR 1967 LINE

Only V-4 on U. S. Market

New York, Oct. 18--SAAB, the Swedish safety-engineered car, today introduced two luxury type additions to its 1967 line. The new models, equipped with V-4 engines, are in addition to the previously announced two-cycle engine models which offer a Lifetime warranty on the engine as well as a radical price reduction for 1967.

The new SAAB V-4 models have been given completely new interior styling with full floor carpets, new side upholstery and seats and back covers in Scandinavian type textiles. New outside trim including wheel embellishers and chrome strips also serves to show off the V-4 SAAB models.

The new engine -- a radical change from SAAB's previous reliance on two-cycle, three- cylinder engines -- is, according to Ralph T. Millet, president of SAAB USA, Inc., the only V-4 now offered in the United States. The engine is made for SAAB by Ford of Germany and develops 73 horsepower SAE with a cylinder displacement of 1500 cc.

Though this is the first time the V-4 engine is used in a production SAAB, Mr. Millet points out that this engine originally was designed in a Swedish SAAB car. He explains that the SAAB V-4 engine is a further development of a powerplant designed originally for use in American Ford's Cardinal compact proect. During its development stages Ford tried out this engine in SAAB cars bought from SAAB dealers near U. S. Ford plants in Michigan.

Despite this heritage, however, the Ford engine was accepted by SAAB only after several years of rigorous tests and analyses of many available four-cycle engines, said Mr. Millet.

"The addition of the luxury V-4 models to the SAAB line," Mr. Millet said, "gives SAAB dealers a complete line of cars to meet any demand."

The 1967 SAAB line starts with a standard sedan model, equipped with SAAB ' s Shrike two-cycle three-cylinder engine, and priced beginning at $1,795 -- a price reduction of some $200. All SAAB Shrike engines are offered with a lifetime engine warranty, the first in the industry. Engines are guaranteed for both parts and labor for the first 24,000 miles or 24 months and guaranteed for parts for as long as the car is owned by the original purchaser. Port of Entry prices of the V-4 models are $2,295 for the Sedan and $2,575 for the Station Wagon.

The Shrike engine warranty is given both with the standard SAAB two-cycle engine and with the new 1967 oil-injection engine -- a new SAAB development in two-cycle engine technology.

In both two-cycle and V-4 models, Mr. Millet stressed that the basic interest of SAAB is the safety of its drivers and passengers. In line with this thinking SAAB has added a new large type front wheel disc brake, designed especially for the high-performance models. Of course all SAABs still feature the now famous "dual diagonal" braking system, recently hailed by the National Space Administration as the best double braking system on wet pavements. The system works on alternate front and rear wheels.

Other safety features, available for several years as standard SAAB equipment, but only added recently to other makes, include: collapsible type steering column; pop-out windshield; energy-absorbing front structure; roll-bar windshield construction; three- point safety harness; padded dash and sun visors; and safety door latches and seat locks.

New for most 1967 SAAB models are extra powerful two-speed windshield wiper motors and alternators instead of generators.

SAAB sales in the United States for 1966 will be in the vicinity of 8,000 units, according to SAAB President Millet. This represents a 40% increase over 1965 and reflects the basic expansion plans of SAAB in the U. S. With the build-up of many new dealerships especially on the West Coast and Alaska where SAAB was not represented until this year, the 1967 sales hike is expected to hit 50% for a total of 12,000 units.

"With the new models for 1967, our dealers have a wider range of cars for a wider range of customers," Mr. Millet noted, adding that production of the V-4 models in Sweden is at a high level so that deliveries in this country should keep pace with the expected
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Offline MG

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Re: Another Name That Engine - Solved! Ford Mustang I V4
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2006, 09:22:51 AM »
Enthusiasts raved, but Lee Iacocca carefully watched general reaction and shrugged. "All the car buffs said, Hey what a car!' but when I look at who's saying it - the offbeat crowd, the real buffs .... I said "That's sure not the car we want to build, because it can't be a volume car. It's too far out".

I a Cuckoo was one shrewd dude. 8)
Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the number of moments that take your breath away!