Topic: Puzzle #109 - Solved! Talbot (Simca) Star Six

[Otto Puzzell]

Know what it is?

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[MG]

Yikes!  The color scheme screams PONTIAC!  Probably something John Z cooked up while he was freebasing one night....

[Otto Puzzell]

Nope.

[shamrock]

A mustang prototype .

[Otto Puzzell]

Not a Mustang.

[wilsongt]

I'm picking Italian, someone mad like Ghia or Touring, a one-off on a SuperAmerica or SuperFast?

Regards
Glenn

[MG]

Well, the front to rear fins bespeak the highpoint of the Great American Tailfin era, which peaked to its ultimate ridiculousness in 1959 or thereabouts. Also, the crappy side view mirrors are indicative of the same era. The twin nostrils look like what all the sexually challenged yard salers glue on to the hoods of their F-350 SuperDuties and Ram Hemis these days.  The windshield looks a LITTLE like a pre-Stingray Corvette.  Putting all of these clues, we are left with the inescapable conclusion that I have absolutely NO idea, though I am willing to bet a lump of good ol Amurrican V-8 power lurks beneath the hood. 

 

[Tifosi]

It looks a lot like  Brooks Stevens' Excalibur ll from 1962.



Dan

[Otto Puzzell]

Not an Excalibur, nor a Brooks Stevens Design.

[SeaLion]

All the cars in the background is Fiats. Perhaps this is based on a Fiat too? Could it be an Abarth? The windshield looks very similar to the ditto of the Abarth Boano Spider.

[porridgehead]

Talbot Star Six, a Virgil Exner design, no?

[Otto Puzzell]

Well, yes and no. 

Virgil Exner Junior

For a number of more than comprehensible reasons, young Exner was a protege of Luigi Segre, who of course was pleased to see him come to Ghia. Inevitably there was some friction with Tjaarda, only superficial at first but increasingly serious.

The dissent between Segre and Tjaarda became so profound that the American architect could only leave: it was 1961. Tom Tjaarda only stayed three years at Ghia, but they were three very formative years for him, and he still recognises their importance today. It was a painful parting, but not definitive. Tom Tjaarda went back eight years later to Ghia after this first short period, when he was a well-established designer, to take the place of no less a person than the great Giorgetto Giugiaro, who in turn was leaving his post as artistic director at Carrozzeria Ghia to set up on his own.

Tom Tjaarda's departure left the field free for the young Exner. It was generally believed, and is confirmed by Filippo Sapino, who joined Ghia in 1961 and so witnessed the episode, that it was only a question of days before Exner Jr. was offered the post of head of the design office. But against all the odds, he never held the post.

There are several reasons for this, but the main one was the sudden death of Luigi Segre which modified the conditions favourable to Exner Jr. joining Ghia. Furthermore, after a short time his father left Chrysler to set up as a freelance, and obviously this opened up a brand new and certainly more interesting future than one at Ghia.

However, even though he was never formally employed there, the younger Exner definitely left his mark at Ghia. After graduating he had been sent to Germany to do his military service. His thesis was a sports car, with a Simca engine but bearing the Talbot marque, which incorporated many of the ideas already expressed in the Chrysler-Ghia idea cars designed by his father, including the outside exhaust pipe, like the Chrysler Falcon A480. He was able, every now and again, to visit Turin from his base, and to follow the work on the body.


Exner Senior andJunior

In the 1960's, the car was sold to a Chrysler dealer, who fitted the car with an Opel windscreen and a T-bar.

[Arthur Dent]

I think I remember (now) this being on eBay a couple years back

[grobmotorix]

A rare 1959 photo:

[Carnut]

Surprisingly this car doesn't seem to have been puzzled before, although if I'm wrong I'm sure to be put right in a very short space of time!  So, what is it, by whom and from when does it date?

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[Carnut]

Experts?

[72Must]

simca special by Virgil Exner junior c'58 ?

[Carnut]

simca special by Virgil Exner junior c'58 ?

That's what I had it as too so the point is yours.
However, this is actually a re-post and in the originbal puzzle it was identified as a "Talbot (Simca) Star Six".
This puzzle will be merged with that.

[Avalanche]

Can someone expand on when/why this car was given the Talbot Star Six name? I have Virgil Exner jr's black Notre Dame thesis binder on the design and build of this car. No where does the name Talbot or "Star Six" appear. The car is known as the Simca Special or the Exner Simca Special.

It is now in a private collection in Alberta, Canada...

[woodinsight]

Can someone expand on when/why this car was given the Talbot Star Six name? I have Virgil Exner jr's black Notre Dame thesis binder on the design and build of this car. No where does the name Talbot or "Star Six" appear. The car is known as the Simca Special or the Exner Simca Special.

It is now in a private collection in Alberta, Canada...

I'm sorry I can't answer your question at the moment. I have this car listed as a Simca Special by Exner 1958/59 and thought I'd post a few extra views of the car. I'm sure someone will come up with the answer soon.

[Avalanche]

That's Beau Hickory, the man who added the "T" in the roof and the windscreen and did away with the clear acrylic dome.

I did find a website (actually more than one and they were all French websites) that referred to this car as the the Talbot Star Six but it also indicated this car was built as the prototype which is not mentioned anywhere in the thesis binder.  The only relation to Talbot is the fact the car was built on a Simca chassis and Simca bought Talbot in 1958. The car was a completely independent design study. I don't believe the car ever was intended to be a prototype.

[Avalanche]

I need to correct myself. I had the pleasure of visiting with Beau Hickory a couple of weeks ago. He is 85 years old but his mind is still clear. Beau was not responsible for doing away with the acrylic dome. It was missing when he got the car and the prior owner didn't know what happened to it. Beau wanted to drive the car regularly so he found a windscreen (actually a rear window from a 1959 Opel) and built the "T" roof to support some gullwing style side windows he had made.

I've spoken with both Virgil Exner Jr and Beau Hickory. Neither could shed any light on why this car is called a Talbot Star Six. The only thing it's ever been known as is the Exner Simca Special. Unless someone can present a logical explanation as to the Star Six name, I would suggest we change the name in the title to what the designer and builder called it.

[grobmotorix]

Unless someone can present a logical explanation as to the Star Six name, I would suggest we change the name in the title to what the designer and builder called it.

Agreed!

[Otto Puzzell]

The name also appeared in these old magazine scans. 

[Avalanche]

Since the car had what was essentially a Fiat engine, Fiat contacted Virgil and asked if they could show the car in Paris in 1957 (?). Virgil was in the military at the time and allowed them to take the car. They had the car for a number of weeks, maybe even months. There are many pictures of the car in Paris with various Fiat executives and even with Charles de Gaulle. There are also pictures of ballerinas sitting on the hood. What they did with it and what they called it during that time was out of Virgil's control. The car was never intended to be a prototype of any sort, as the article above suggests. It was Virgil's personal project and was built in the Chrysler design facility after Virgil graduated from Notre Dame University(the design was done as his master's thesis). The car never had anything to do with Talbot...ever, other than that Simca owned Talbot at the time. Fiat did give Virgil a brand new Fiat of some description to show their appreciation for letting them have the car.

I still maintain that the designer and builder of the car never called it anything other than the Exner Simca Special. To call it something else is simply disrespecting the man that built it.

There will be a segment on this car on a program called Mystery Cars. I'm not sure how much of Virgil's interview will be on it but I've seen the raw footage. The raw footage certainly fills a number of gaps we had in the history of the car. Hopefully the final cut will do the same.