Author Topic: The Ship of Theseus  (Read 4567 times)

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Offline Stephen M

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The Ship of Theseus
« on: December 12, 2007, 09:02:58 PM »
"This is George Washington's ax," the old joke goes, "it's been through 14 heads and 8 handles, but it's still as good as new". The implied philosophical question of just when an entity whose component parts have all been replaced ceases to be that entity is known as the "Ship of Theseus" problem. In short, when you replace an entire thing piece by piece, is it still what is was?

This question was brought to my frontal lobe a few weeks back by a photo I saw of an old Jaguar. The car had been driven at speed into an immovable object, and now occupied 1/3rd of its original volume and was charred to a crisp. I then learned that the car had been "restored" and was actively participating in vintage racing once again, apparently good as new.

Literally good as new, that is, since 90% of the component parts by weight must have been new. There were maybe 3 bolts among the wreckage that could have been salvaged. So why was it considered the same storied car with the same racing pedigree? And who determines what is new, old, or somewhere in between?

We, as automotive enthusiasts, do, and there's the rub. We, as the sole market for such ancient artifacts, determine the price they're worth. We're the ones who say an over-engined sedan whose chassis number matches that of the engine is worth twice as much as one whose doesn't. We're the ones who write checks with excessive zeros for newly built cars whose original parts could be sent in an envelope for standard postage. And we're the ones who insure them for "full" value, enter them in competitive events, wreck 'em, and start over again. In other words, the feigned historical significance of newly minted cars is a fiction of our own creation.

This fiction, I remind you, is what allows the ground-up remanufacturing of the rolling artwork at Pebble Beach. It's what allows us to get high-dollar insurance policies for restorations costing only slightly more than the outrageous auction price of your favorite classic. It's what allows us to see these vehicles at speed, in competitive events, driven by owners who know they can recoup the loss if they stuff it in in a corner. This fiction is the very lifeblood of our passion. Without it, the whole house of cards comes crashing down.

I won't tell if you won't.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2007, 09:34:38 PM by Stephen M »
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Offline Ultra

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Re: The Ship of Theseus
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2007, 10:54:38 PM »
 8)

Nicely done.  When I get my computer back and get past this dinosaur I currently rely upon, I will post it to the main page.
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Offline lynxd67

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Re: The Ship of Theseus
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2007, 06:28:37 AM »
You raise an interesting point. At what point is a car considered "original"?  Is your car exactly as it left the factory? I doubt it. Most Jaguar C types have been seriously damaged due to racing but the crux of the matter is that the difference between a "real" car and a replica is "does it have a continuous history"? The fact that it has been well and truly rebuilt is another matter. Have a look at the following photos:-





Just for effect, here are a couple more:-





We never did find one of the torsion bars. Even the manifolds were ripped clean off the block and the studs sheared, so hard was the impact.

Now look at this one:-



This car was rolled and caught fire during the Le Mans classic 2004 but was racing again in 2006 completely restored. Unfortunately it was, before the accident, the most original of all the C types in existence. Is it now a real C type or a replica? Because it has a continuous history it is an original and as such eligible for any concours event, despite the fact that about 5% of the car was usable after the accident.

I wrote about XKD 604 elsewhere, and that, although a correctly built D type with some original parts, will never be considered in proper circles anything but a replica. The original car ceased to exist between 1956 and 1989 when it "reappeared" although the factory records show it to have been dismantled for spares.

The truth of the concours world today is that it has gone far beyond its original intention, which is why many now have two prizes, concours d'elegance (for restored cars) and concours d'etat (for original patina'd cars). Laguna Seca and Pebble Beach are now amongst these.

No, there isn't one car that is "original" today - I've judged concours so feel able to comment. For example, where do you find the 1963 air to pump up the tyres? In addition, if the car is wearing "original" tyres it would be damned dangerous since they could explode at any time. The only judge of a car is whether it has continuous history, otherwise not one car out there would or could be considered a classic.. Of course. not to forget that a real C type is now worth north of $2 million whereas a relica would be about $300,000.

Offline Otto Puzzell

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Re: The Ship of Theseus
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2007, 08:02:55 AM »
8)

Nicely done.  When I get my computer back and get past this dinosaur I currently rely upon, I will post it to the main page.

All set - enjoy your snowy Sunday!  :)
You wanna be the man, you gotta Name That Car!